moving APIDEA "colony" into a NUC

[goodbobby]

I have two 14x12 colonies, both are running out of space and I supered 10 days ago. I was intending to carry out an artificial swarm on the older colony no.1 (Buckfast) early this May to create a 3rd colony.

I carried out my first inspection last Sunday (sunny 20 degrees). I worked on colony 2 first (a late May 2010 swarm) wanting to know whether there was any space to relieve colony 1's burgeoning size. The hive was fairly full but but with room for Q to lay and plenty of stores capped brood and eggs. I spotted the Q as well. The new super was about 30% full of uncapped honey.

On getting to colony 1, I found this very tight on space. To my surprise there were a number of primed QC's in course and one large sealed one at the top of a frame. The 2010 queen was evident. I say surprised because I took 70 lbs of honey from this hive last year and have never seen, other than play-cups any sign of QCs before. Obviously I appreciate the room issue has probably triggered this.

Now comes the really stupid bit....instead of just starting the artificial swarm procedure (all the kit is in place and ready) I had a brainstorm and decided to put the QC in an apidea with young bees and fondant . On reflection an AS would have relieved the space problem. However I still can do this as planned.

Now, I intend to continue the apidea process later this week but really expect to be unsuccessful because it is probably a little early. However, this raised the hypothetical question in my mind what would I do if this little colony was successful? I have in mind building a 5 frame 14x12 nuc box, blanking off all bar 3 frames and filling the remainder with insulation,dummy boards. Then making a re-sealable entrance in the top of the nuc box and devising a way of attaching the apidea to it before eventually (once the little colony was viable) removing the bottom apidea door allowing it access to the restricted nuc and closing the apidea entrance. I could then bring on the nuc on 14x12 frames.

So my questions are (1) would this work and the Q and bees move down into the nuc? (2) would the bees just not survive because of the small colony size going into a bigger albeit reduced and insulated 3 frame nuc? (2) Would there be any merit in adding frames of sealed brood or stores to bolster such a colony once it became settled? (3) What alternatives might I have and does anyone make any suitable transfer kit?

Any help, ideas or experiences would be greatly appreciated, searches on the forum and elsewhere have come up virtually a blank.

 

[Poly Hive]

Building up an mini nuc to a full nuc is not that straightforward.

You are looking at a TINY colony. If you add a full brood box to it it s times goodness knows how much volume and it is far too much for them to cope with.

Think baby in crib suddenly given the volume of a house to keep it warm and ponder....

I made up a four super frame unit from insulation sheet, and added that on first, dummied to two frames, then removed one, then the other dummy, and when they were established in it I moved them on to a full nuc. It took months.

Mini units are not designed to produce nucs. They are purely meant for mating queens.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Not got as far as processing further than your brain f*art, but you said:

However I still can do this (the A/S) as planned.

You won't unless you get a move on. She could have been long gone before you get round to it. Possibly not this early in the season but you are risking losing your queen.

I presume you destroyed the other queen cells?

If you missed one and the weather is warm enough, she will be gone, likely already. If you got them all they could raise a (scrub, possibly) queen from a 3 day old larva and be gone shortly, particularly if they have run out of space.

My 14 x 12s are not restricted to just the broodbox at this time of the year. Better to give her space than lose a swarm for that simple reason.

RAB

 

[drstitson]

personally i'd have done a split to produce a proper nuc and the original colony.

maybe not too late to retrace steps and go down that route.

 

[goodbobby]

Hi RAB
I chopped out all the other primed QCs......Are you recommending I go double 14x12 BB or brood and a half using a super? I imagine both would be mucky to manipulate. Perhaps I had better start my AS ASAP. It sounds like my brainstorm was worse than I thought!

 

[RoofTops]

Give it a go - bees quickly run out of space in apideas so they should migrate down into the larger box eventually but it will take time and conservation of heat could be a problem. Could be a total failure but what is the loss?

I am doing something a little similar at the moment. I found a queenless colony recently so I united it with a colony in a mini-hive. This is a thing like a large Apidea - takes 6 frames, each about 4 times larger than apidea ones. The mini-hive was placed on a queen excluder above the queenless brood box, initially with newspaper. A second brood box was then put around it and the roof added. After a week I tipped the queen into the queenless box and she has now started laying there. The mini-hive and queen excluder will stay in place for another 3 weeks until all the brood in it has emerged.

The difference between what I am doing and what you were planning is there are bees in the box below the little colony and also everything is poly so better insulation although it sounds as if you are addressing that in your nuc design. I suggest take at least one frame of brood out of the main colony plus a frame with some stores, plus all the bees on these frames and add these to the nuc. If you select mostly sealed brood you should have more chance of success I think as there may not be enough bees to feed open brood. Less chance also for queen cells to be made on the brood frame.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yes A/S. Too late to risk just adding extra space now. If they are in swarm mode, it can be very difficult to get them to change their collective mind. Extra space in my last post was meant as a whole new box for the laying queen and most of the foragers now. Earlier extra space was the likely means of avoidance of an early swarm. Act now or you may finish by losing a swarm and could have trouble getting the new queen mated - that's if you did not miss a cell on Sunday and they have not drawn out from a three day old larva for a queen cell. Less likely that would happen at this time of the year, and for the first round of queen cell destruction, but I have missed a swarm before now after knocking out the queen cells and going back just one day too late! BTDT, so never again unless I cannot do otherwise.

I have one with charged queen cells. Found it today. I will be back at that one tomorrow, to A/S. Would have done it today but the queen eluded me.

I will find her tomorrow......

RAB

 

[goodbobby]

Thanks Guys. After mulling over your replies I drove up to my away apiary this afternoon with a view to carrying out an AS but there was rain in the air and it was a bit late in the day so I decided to delay. I did however pop the lid very quickly on the hive in question and was relieved to see that it was still full of bees. So I will AS tomorrow am. Maybe todays temperature drop has saved my bacon.

The problem might be that I was too successful with removing QCs so the resultant Q-parent hive may not have any QCs available. However judging by conditions at the previous inspection I don't think the bees will have given up that easily. Anyhow I don't think I have any choice as it is stuffed full..... You never know the Apidea Q if she hatches and survives may still have her uses?