More Queen Cells

[Millet]

I was going to post in this thread as I have a similar colony. But it would appear hilarity has ensued. I will keep it to myself lol.

Don't be a wuss, fire away,

 

[Robbo8916]

Don't be a wuss, fire away,

Just ripping my hair out with my 'main' colony. They are on 4 frames of brood in a 10 frame box with ample stores and plenty of room for the queen to lay.

Yet they insist on building swarm cells and supersedure cells at the same time. Then they fire out a swarm, which duly returns due to queens being clipped.

The nuc have no issue with their queen, she has a beautiful laying pattern and they are wonderfully calm bees with plenty of stores to see them through. I even had a dream about someone finding one of my swarms last night!

I am in my first year and just about everything that could have gone wrong, has!

The main colony have ample room, more than ample stores, in fact they are even storing in their super. (Just for the record I put that on before the latest swarm as I wanted to try get some frames drawn).

I just cannot work out what their problem is. It looks like the only option will be to dig through, remove all cells and queen, curtains for her, and order in a mated queen. Problem is I think they will just supersede her anyway, they do it every single time they have a new queen. Supersede her then fire out a swarm.

I am at a loss......

 

[Millet]

Have you read through this full thread Robbo, JBM and other members have posted some good information.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

they insist on building swarm cells and supersedure cells at the same time.

No such thing as both at the same time it's either or - if there are one (or maybe two close together) especially if they are on the periphery of the nest and/or in the middle of the frame there's a fair chance they're supersedure. if there are loads, regardless of whether they are - probably swarm cells.
The only solution that I can suggest is, if they build more, A/S them, at this time of year, do a Wally Shaw and see what happens

 

[Robbo8916]

No such thing as both at the same time it's either or - if there are one (or maybe two close together) especially if they are on the periphery of the nest and/or in the middle of the frame there's a fair chance they're supersedure. if there are loads, regardless of whether they are - probably swarm cells.
The only solution that I can suggest is, if they build more, A/S them, at this time of year, do a Wally Shaw and see what happens

For the last two months they have constantly built what I was taught were swarm cells (directly on the bottom of the frames). But then more recently there have been both those types of cells AND cells in the centre of frames on the outer of the brood nest. It honestly looks like I have the bees from hell. They raise a new queen, replace her and send her out with a swarm.

I may just have bitten off more than I can chew with this and should have maybe waited longer before getting my bees but at the time I got them I did have a mentor. Now I don't. And I have no idea what is going on. It just baffles me. (but thankyou for your reply I will give it a go).

 

[Millet]

Hi Millet, Give it another week on the nuc and then look for eggs. Main hive down to one QC as said above, but be thorough. I can hop it is trying to be proactive for you as the main hive has swarmed and we don't know how strong it is now. Wasps pounce on hives trying to requeen themselves and nucs. There is time for the colonies to sort themselves out for winter. Good luck.

Bet they won't winter well if at all.

I really appreciate yours and every ones advice greatly, But you have me confused here once i have read through the replies again.

 

[maddydog]

I am in my first year and just about everything that could have gone wrong, has!

I just cannot work out what their problem is.

I am at a loss......

Most of us have likely been there at some point.

Keep reading and learning. If it doesn't work this try something else next year. That's the great thing with bees, very easy to increase after losses/mistakes

 

[Erichalfbee]

And I have no idea what is going on. It just baffles me. (but thankyou for your reply I will give it a go).

If they were mine I might just squash her (or put her in a 2 frame nuc if feeling sentimental) and unite them to the nuc

 

[midnight sun]

Going to PM you Rob....look out for it! (more info anyway)

 

[Millet]

Going to PM you Rob....look out for it! (more info anyway)

Don't PM share it on here for others to learn , if you do not want to post PM me also.

 

[Robbo8916]

Don't PM share it on here for others to learn , if you do not want to post PM me also.

midnightsun has been incredibly helpful in a number of ways. I await his inbox with bated breath!

 

[beeno]

If the bees are not happy with what they produce in terms of supersedure queen and I am not happy then I requeen. If I am happy with the new queen's laying and they produce further supersedure cells then I tear them down twice and that usually stops it or I change the strain. Unless it is late in the season or a queen of 2+ seasons I treat all QC as swarm cells. I have seen enough of beeks closing up saying it is supersedure, because they can't be bothered to do an AS. That works for me, but then for some reason I don't appear to have swarmy stock?

 

[midnight sun]

Don't PM share it on here for others to learn , if you do not want to post PM me also.

Just getting the history of this rather than searching back as we discussed this earlier between us and I took an interest. Plus the other info. is unrelated, just too lazy to write 2 emails. Your not missing anything yet Millet....don't fret.(LOL) If there is anything I'll either post or PM you. Some sound advice given already which I may simply agree with.

 

[Robbo8916]

Just getting the history of this rather than searching back as we discussed this earlier between us and I took an interest. Plus the other info. is unrelated, just too lazy to write 2 emails. Your not missing anything yet Millet....don't fret.(LOL) If there is anything I'll either post or PM you. Some sound advice given already which I may simply agree with.

Building a case......... Thanks so much for your help Dave

 

[Millet]

Just getting the history of this rather than searching back as we discussed this earlier between us and I took an interest. Plus the other info. is unrelated, just too lazy to write 2 emails. Your not missing anything yet Millet....don't fret.(LOL) If there is anything I'll either post or PM you. Some sound advice given already which I may simply agree with.

Believe me i will not spit my dummy out , good on you though for helping someone. ? .

 

[midnight sun]

Believe me i will not spit my dummy out , good on you though for helping someone. ? .

This involves LONG emails so it's no use posting all that till there is some conclusion, that's all. nothing to post yet Millet. I'm sure he/ we will if it's worth it.

 

[Millet]

This involves LONG emails so it's no use posting all that till there is some conclusion, that's all. nothing to post yet Millet. I'm sure he/ we will if it's worth it.

 

[midnight sun]

Just for you Millet! LOL. After much deliberation as to why they repaetedly swarmed. ( Sounded like poor queen quality and things just got worse each time. ) Rob and I agreed that the best option was Erica's idea of a unite with the good Queen. We were worried for a time, that possibly nosema could have been the cause, making a weak colony and suseptable Queens, so uniting without thought could have made matters worse by affecting the healthy colony, hence the delays. (Thanks to Finman for his valuable help with that subject). So thats it....unless Rob changes his mind of course!
The trouble with emails is they are too slow to progress.

 

[Millet]

Hope it all goes well for Rob, i have not been near mine since a day or two before i posted the original question, hopefully i have something positive to see when i have a quick look in there tomorrow.

 

[Robbo8916]

Hope it all goes well for Rob, i have not been near mine since a day or two before i posted the original question, hopefully i have something positive to see when i have a quick look in there tomorrow.

For Millet;

The 'main' colony have swarmed themselves into decline essentially. They are now a smaller colony than the nuc. They do have a new queen whom we believed to be a virgin but who may be mated fingers crossed. They have absolutely no brood at all. This queen is getting two weeks' grace and if she starts laying then they will be reduced down into a nuc for the winter. They may receive a frame of brood from the nuc to give them a boost.

If she isn't laying in two weeks time she will be dispatched and the two colonies united.

So I will keep you posted =)