Mating Biology of Honeybees

[TooBee...]

Hi all,

I know that the more experienced members will likely know most of this, but I thought that this YouTube video was so interesting I'd just share it with you (it was previously referenced in another Thread).

Mating Biology of Honeybees (the research findings about Drone Congregation Areas is very good)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI26DLS2CyM

- a lecture given by Gudran Koeniger at the National Honey Show 2014 entitled "Mating Biology of Honeybees. DCA's - A Natural Strategy To Avoid In-breeding".

 

[Brian Bush]

Hi TooBee I have read her book and watched the video. Her findings and what was said make complete sense. Don't, however, try and use this to answer a question on the BBKA module. I did 3 years ago and got a poor mark. When I asked about this I was told that it was too forward thinking for the BBKA question setters who had not heard the talk at the National Honey Show, watched the video or read the book.
Quite a few of the forum members have recently mentioned these findings and the explanation. I believe that she is correct.

 

[TooBee...]

...Don't, however, try and use this to answer a question on the BBKA module. I did 3 years ago and got a poor mark....

Thanks for the heads up, I'm hoping on doing a Course next year, I think I better stick to the prescribed reading material.

The part at the end of the talk, about (inherited) genetic memory was controversial, I'm not 100% sure if it was a translation issue, BUT they did move hives out of an area, then move a new hive into the area, and the NEW Drones went straight to the DCA without an orientation flight, her explanation was it's genetic, but that can't be right, but I'm at a loss to provide a good expanation???

 

[Beefriendly]

her explanation was it's genetic, but that can't be right, but I'm at a loss to provide a good expanation???

It is genetic, how could it be anything else?
That simple experiment proved it beyond any reasonable doubt. What we don't understand is what the genetics (or genes) are that directs drones (or queens for that matter) to DCA's. Only that it must exists as it simply isn't something they are taught or get experience of .
In hilly regions depletion of horizon seems to be a common factor, but not why the drones stop at any particular location. But the jury is out on flat plains where DCA do not seem to exist, rather there appears to be a random spread of drones.
Still we have much to learn.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi TooBee I have read her book and watched the video. Her findings and what was said make complete sense. Don't, however, try and use this to answer a question on the BBKA module. I did 3 years ago and got a poor mark. When I asked about this I was told that it was too forward thinking for the BBKA question setters who had not heard the talk at the National Honey Show, watched the video or read the book.
Quite a few of the forum members have recently mentioned these findings and the explanation. I believe that she is correct.

I read that with total dismay but little surprise
How can an examiner give you points for a wrong answer when the right answer is there for all to see?

I love these Honey Show videos, so much to learn

 

[Brian Bush]

Thanks for the heads up, I'm hoping on doing a Course next year, I think I better stick to the prescribed reading material.

The part at the end of the talk, about (inherited) genetic memory was controversial, I'm not 100% sure if it was a translation issue, BUT they did move hives out of an area, then move a new hive into the area, and the NEW Drones went straight to the DCA without an orientation flight, her explanation was it's genetic, but that can't be right, but I'm at a loss to provide a good expanation???

I found this a little difficult to understand. How do bees from a different country manage to find the DCA? If I recall correctly this was a question asked by someone at the end of the talk and I felt it caught the speaker a little off-guard.
The only 2 DCA I know of are around clear landmarks so I made the assumption, it is only my assumption, that they fly towards a dip in the topography and a landmark is used. This however does not explain the use year after year of the same landmark.
With regard to the DCA where the topography is flat I was led to believe that DCAs still appeared but no clear topographical feature was evident and they were more fluid and may be at different places at differing dates. I may not have gleaned this from Grudren's book or talk but from some other reading or lecture.
I would be interested to know if the drones form a DCA in a remote mating station such as an Island. The module question, if I recall it correctly was asking about mating on isolated moorland. In retrospect I should have treated the question as if it were an Island mating station and not tried to be too clever by looking for topographical features.
I had the evolutionary traits of the drones and queens that decide that queens go further to avoid mating with close relatives explained to me using this simple analogy.
Before leaving the hive the drones and the queens take on enough 'fuel' to fly for say 1 hour.
Because a drone has to remain on station in the DCA in the hope of getting lucky he confines himself to a flight of no more than 20 mins. He waits in the DCA for a further 20 mins and then uses up his fuel reserves on the return flight to refuel.
The queen on the other hand with the same duration of fuel can fly for 30 mins to a DCA. This will be further away. A couple of minutes of fun on site and then she can return. She will always get lucky in a very short time.
This is an analogy and the times are just for purpose of explanation of course.

 

[TooBee...]

I found this a little difficult to understand. How do bees from a different country manage to find the DCA? If I recall correctly this was a question asked by someone at the end of the talk and I felt it caught the speaker a little off-guard....

Yes, you're thinking along the same lines as me. How does a Drone with different genetics know where the DCA is in a very different geographic region - there must be something else that attracts them to the DCA.

 

[masterBK]

I have set and marked quite few module papers over the years. When a candidate comes up with an answer using information that isn't in the "books" yet ( eg using hypotheses, conclusions and extrapolations drawn from data from recent or current researchers) then the examiner(s) will discuss this with the moderator and do their utmost to locate this information and if it turns out to be valid will credit the candidate with marks for it. In beekeeping there are often several alternative answers to a question and marking schemes try to reflect this. Most of the module examiners that I know, do try to keep as up to date as possible with an extensive beekeeping library, copies of research papers and files off the internet. They will also be in attendance at conferences up and down the country listening to keynote speakers updating beekeepers about their work and findings.

 

[mbc]

Yes, you're thinking along the same lines as me.

Are they them ley lines?

 

[oliver90owner]

Are they them ley lines?

Probably not. Temperature is a defining requirement for mating. It wou;d be obvious that DCAs are at the warmest place in the area? Why would they not choose the warmest air flow?

Topography and local flights would soon sort out where the queens/drones would aim for. No point in drones congregating where it is too cool for mating, is it?

 

[Finman]

.
I do not mind about drone areas. I cannot do nothing to it.

That I know that in my home apiary queens mate with good Italian drones.
If I mate queens in outer apiaries, they propably mate with wild Carniolans.

I do not need to know much how it happens. Warm weathers are important and that is why I rear Queens in the middle of summer.

Professional queen breeders say that in early summer queens are mated at all or they they are poorly mated. Then colonies supercede quickly their queens. It means that selected breeding results in genes disapper more quickly.

To buy queens? I have noticed with buckfasts, how quickly original gene material disappear in the middle of Italian hives. After 2 generations only 25% out of original genes are left, and the colony is not any more a buckfast.


But then "pure yellow Italians". They are really many. Some are swarmy and some are poor layers. But I cannot see, with whom a queen has mated. With Carniolan I can see.

I bought 10 italians with half price and I have killed with Carniolan mated queens and replaced with pure Italians.


What I tell..... I try to think , what I can do to keep my hives in wanted limits.
.