Making National hives

[Dishmop]

Yeahright!

From your post, quote: 'if you get everything cut at B&Q you only need to drill holes.' unquote. I rest my case and suggest you check out those three words (cedar, planks and scratch) in the context of the thread.You might even address the questions posed?

I am fairly certain the answers would be in the negative.

Are you playing with yourself?

 

[user 6228]

What you seem to have missed is the fact that I was actually quoting and replying to the bit about not having to make rebates, but we do learn to overlooked the fact that you have to find fault so you are forgiven in this instance.

 

[REDWOOD]

I think there is a sense of deep satisfaction when you make your own hive, however to get it right takes a bit of practice and strive for perfection and results will be rewarding, a good tip that any carpenter will use.... measure twice and cut once, you can take away wood but its hard to put it back

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Apologies in advance for this lengthy offering. I like to give Melias the benefit of my experience of hive building over the last few weeks.

I did my initial beekeeping course during the summer and decided to build my own hives to reduce the initial outlay plus even if I’d bought hives then, it was too late in the season to get bees through the winter in them. To practise my not very extensive woodworking skills, I built a 14x12 nuke. I watched Hedgerow Pete’s videos on Youtube and these helped a lot to clarify the carpentry involved. I put the nuke up in a tree in the hope of attracting a late swarm but no luck.

Flushed with success of the nuke, I decided to tackle the full hive over the winter. I struggled with drawings because although there are drawings on the internet, they tended either to be in imperial units or to illustrate bottom beespace hives and I wanted top beespace. Although this does not sound significant, as a nobee beekeeper, I needed to think carefully about how this affected the detail of the hive construction. You also need to think about whether you will rebate the box-end into the box-side or go with a butt joint. I decided to use a 5mm rebate, which has helped to make the first assembled boxes to be very rigid. You need to do some detailed arithmatic involving the actual thickness of your wood (my nominal 19mm plywood was actually 17.5mm thick) and rebate (if used) to determine the length of the box-end. Like the man said "Measure twice and cut once" You also need to be meticulous about measuring the diagonals when putting the boxes together to be sure they’re square. I used predrilled holes and galvanised plasterboard screws as fixings – Hedgerow Pete again!

I bought an 8’ x 4’ sheet of exterior grade plywood and from this I should have been able to build two 14x12 Brood Boxes, five Supers and two Roofs (I bought some exterior grade 9mm plywood for the top of the roof). I made some cutting mistakes so did not end up with the last super – very annoying.

I had hand tools, a circular saw, a router that I’d barely used and a bench sander I’d bought for another project that didn’t happen. After I’d ripped the plywood sheet into strips with my circular saw (B & Q cheapo nasty with a new finer tooth blade), a neighbour offered the loan of his portable table saw, which made life easier in shaping the rails, etc.

I copied a tool from the internet that allowed me to use the saw to cut dovetails into the box sides for the top and bottom rails and I also made a template to allow me to accurately cut the 5mm rebates in the box sides with my router. With these aids, it became a boring “production” job and on a couple of occasions, I lost concentration and made mistakes. I should have drunk more tea!

To cover the roof, I bought some thin aluminium, cut out of an old caravan, from a local scrap yard. When folding this sheet metal, I found I needed to think carefully about the order in which the folds were made, if the finished article were to look half decent – apparently, this working out of the folding order is what sheet metal workers do all the time but as a first-timer, it came as a shock!

I made an Open Mesh Floor based on a design by Graham White – Google these and you’ll find details on the internet. I had the mesh from a friend who had it left over from refurbishing a fireguard.

I reckon my two hives – each with OM Floor, B Box, 2 Supers and Roof – will have cost me about £70 and a lot of time. I’ll probably spend another £12 to build a stand for them to sit on in the home Apiary. Incidentally, I found local independent wood yards were cheaper than the big DIY stores for timber supplies. Ill paint the outsides with Cuprinol Shades as I have some left over from painting a shed.

By the end, I’ll probably have spent 40+ hours on the physical work and somewhere near that on researching information on the internet (including this forum) and in the library.

I still have not decided whether to incorporate ventilation slots in the second Roof – what’s the point if a Crown Board and/or insulation prevents moist air getting up to the slots? Any thoughts anybody?

Would I do it again? Probably not – I’d buy poly hives, which seem to be coming down in price and are a LOT lighter than my plywood hive parts.
Good luck with your hives!

 

[oliver90owner]

what’s the point if a Crown Board and/or insulation prevents moist air getting up to the slots? Any thoughts anybody?

There are very good reasons for doing this. Look at your own home - the loft must be ventilated to avoid damp problems; a beehive is no different.

If it rains and you replace a damp crownboard - warm damp conditions in the roof space, to encourage all the life which causes rot, is not what is wanted

Think about your loft-space. It gets hot up there in summer? It is a buffer between your rooms and the effects of direct sunshine. Hot air rises and coooler air is at the bottom. Air is an extemely good insulator as long as it stays still, so heat transmitted downwards is limited and if there is a slight loss of hot air from the roof(the hottest air), that will help too. Behives are no different.

Ventilation of nearly all closed air spaces in buildings is a clear necessity to avoid condensation at some point, or clear it should it occur. Beehives are no different - you have one warmer surface and one cooler in the cold winter months; when the outer leaf temperature in the roof space goes below zero in winter, water will condense from the air in the space. It may well soak into any wood and/or may not evaporate again as the temperasture rises high enough to support rot and mould growth.

'Nuff reasons?

RAB

BTW, I didn't respond to dishrag's innuendo earlier, but I will now. No. I think it is he who continually plays with himself to the detriment of answering the thread topics with any sense at all. Further, I think he must work in a bank? Maybe Wloyds or Warclays?

 

[melias]

Many thanks for your advice charlievictorbravo. Do any of you construct hives out of solid wood (non-ply) other than cedar?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do any of you construct hives out of solid wood (non-ply) other than cedar?

Yes.

 

[melias]

So what are some alternatives that are more easily available to DIY hive builders?

 

[itma]

So what are some alternatives that are more easily available to DIY hive builders?

Cedar's advantage is in being light, stiff and rot-resistant.

If you can put up with the weight and/or don't mind the repainting, use what you can get.
Apparently, the hives on Fortnum & Mason's roof were specially made - in oak!

 

[rae]

It all comes down to why you want to do it.

If you want the sheer satisfaction of making a hive, then you can do it with your teeth if you have the time. You could easily knock up a hive with a tenon saw, a rip saw and a rabbet plane. If you take your time, it would be perfectly accurate. The only thing you'd need to ensure what that your cedar was the right thickness up front. You'd probably end up paying more for the wood than a flat packed kit, but that's not the point.

Me? I just want national bee boxen and fast as cheap as possible. I make them out of 18mm marine ply, and deploy every power tool that Festool and Incra have created to make lots of them quickly.

 

[REDWOOD]

Many thanks for your advice charlievictorbravo. Do any of you construct hives out of solid wood (non-ply) other than cedar?

Yes, My first one was from pine and the rest are from redwood, redwood is not pine but a lot cheaper and can be picked up from a local builders yard or saw mill, some do say that good quality pine treated well will last longer than ceder. trying to find planks 12 1/2 inches wide is hard to come buy, I use T&G boards glued and clamped together and 3 years on still doing well but I am going to buy a biscuit joiner as T&G boards are expensive. A good wood glue is polyurethane based glues like gorilla glue, a good tip is to wear gloves

 

[Hivemaker.]

redwood is not pine but a lot cheaper

So what is it then... Sequoia, giant redwood.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20867

 

[REDWOOD]

So what is it then... Sequoia, giant redwood.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20867

Hivemaker I do remember the thread and researched this myself and posted this, do tell me if you agree or disagree
are pines redwoods ?
Only very, very distantly. Both are conifers in the order Pinales. But that's as far as the relationship goes. Redwoods (Sequoia sempervirens) are in the cypress family (Cupressaceae) while pines are in the pine family (Pinaceae).

 

[Hivemaker.]

The redwood that most builders merchants sell is pine, more often than not corsican pine, which is very much the same as scots pine, slight difference in the needles,plus corsican grows much straighter with less knots, if from the baltic then called baltic pine.
pine.
conifer, or fir.
spruce,sitka,norway ect..whitewood

 

[REDWOOD]

That's what I thought but then got a bit confused along the way, thanks for putting things straight again

 

[REDWOOD]

you are going to hate me.......... so whitewood come from ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Most of the white wood in builders merchants is from Norway spruce (xmas trees) but sitka spruce is also a white wood, popular for building aircraft, couple of well known ones were Howard Hughes spruce goose and the de Havilland Mosquito.