Making National hives

[DulwichGnome]

If do not have/want a bench saw, you will need to find a timber merchant who will cut the right widths of plank/ply and with a Sliding Mitre Saw, which will cut 225mm+ across, you have what you need to create almost any box. You might want to add a cheap band saw to do the bevels on the bottom rail but it's not absolutely necessary.

I made a 500x500mm by 900mm high bench using an off cut of good quality kitchen work top 40mm thick which is great as a flat and square 'knock up' table.

Mike.

 

[yeogi75]

however ignore him

My advice was to try something simpler first. It still is. Jumping in at the deep end may work for some but there would be some who just would drown.

Progression to hive boxes in due course was not excluded. You just have to spit it out clearly and bluntly or posters don't understand the message. Just look back at sir quej first post and now see what he thinks of his initial idea now! As an example).

Too many people 'egging on' when they have little idea (or no idea at all) as to the competence of a particular person.

buy your brood box,make all other pieces as they are disposable later if they dont work out ,but your brood box is there permanent home and are not to be messed about with

 

[VEG]

Just give it a go you will learn from your mistakes.

 

[Dishmop]

Go to B&Q buy a sheet of ply, get them to cut it to size, bung all the bits in the car, take them home and screw/glue together. Only need a drill, a set square, and something level like a paving stone (or kitchen floor) to make sure they sit level. No saw, no router. This year I made 3 hives and some wood left for £50. If you want to be fancy you can buy an electric sander.

 

[Dishmop]

if you have no wood working skills

dont they do this in school any more or are they worried that somebody might get a splinter and sue the school?

 

[PeterHarris]

Hi ... the shop bought hives i have seen are often very poorly put together ( nail gun and too much speed) I'm sure you can do it if you are acurate and respect the bee space!!
good luck
Peter

 

[oliver90owner]

Some need to read the early threads from the OP.

Such as: from scratch

I don't have woodworking experience yet

I wanted to try building a hive from cedar planks.

Now we have parts bought in ready cut to size and put together 'better than some shop-bought hives'. Nothing remotely close to the aspirations of the OP.

Cedar in small quantities is not cheap, planks need to be square edged and cut and finished to size (in all three dimensions). There are four pairs of items in a hive box (made to the National design) to be made as identical pairs; there are correctly sized rebates and grooves to be cut, along with the required drip angles on the side rails. Any non-identical parts is likely to present further difficulty to a green horn. With experience, the joiner can usually cover minor mistakes with ease.

Let's not forget there is a brood, a couple of shallows (at least), a floor, a roof and a few other bits. Half a hive is not a hive!

Buying the flat packs is likely far cheaper, more accurate, and reliable than parts which may, or may not, do the job.

Boxes with butt joints are not to the National design and will likely not be as strong

If the OP wants to do it, go ahead; but one wonders why there are so many that simply seem to want to go along with the OP's idea even if it is seriously flawed. That 'feel good' factor that the majority not 'in the know' feel when they likely don't even know what they are encouraging the OP to spend on (it's not their money after all, is it? Not their fingers getting cut either).

Realism is cheap enough, fantasy is cheaper. If one knew the aptitude of the OP then a better recommendation is possible, but as far as we know flat packs are their current limit.

I do believe it means there are a lot of posters out there that don't have a clue, when answering on a thread, and this thread demonstrates it admirably. I suggest some take a reality check before posting.

 

[susbees]

Considerable savings can be made (and experience gained) by building the less complicated bits, floors, roofs and crown boards would be a good start IMO.

Excellent advice - even I, with no workshop atm, can make good crownboards with better quality materials at a lower price. Horsley boards this winter

 

[Dishmop]

If the OP wants to do it, go ahead;

Exactly, so why put them off the idea?

Do we want a world full of people who say "oh, I dont know how to" ?

Everybody should know somebody who knows somebody who can.
If you dont know anything about woodwork its very unlikely you will know what the hell a router is, or a mitred joint, etc etc.
Whats wrong with a butt joint on a hive? Never noticed my hives distorting from the stress created by the bees rushing around inside.

Because you pay for something doesnt mean that it has been made properly or to a standard of fit for purpose.
Professional only means that the person is paid for doing it, not that they are doing it properly.

I've have seen on here "where can I buy wood from"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Oscarmonster]

take a reality check before posting.

Reality check warning!

Hive making is basic woodwork.

It's not always about doing things on the cheap, I'd stop keeping bees if I wanted to save money.

 

[MJBee]

Better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all.

I started making my own hives using just hand tools. I have now acquired a table saw, a band saw and a planer/thicknesser all of which make life much easier. However as RAB said small quantities of cedar are expensive and if I costed in my time (even at minimum wage rates) it makes my hives the most expensive on the planet.

I do it because I enjoy it and it keeps me occupied during the winter months. Any mistakes can be fed into the pot belly stove that keeps me warm while I try again

 

[ayagerard]

Some need to read the early threads from the OP.

Cedar in small quantities is not cheap,

Buying the flat packs is likely far cheaper, more accurate, and reliable than parts which may, or may not, do the job.
If the OP wants to do it, go ahead; but one wonders why there are so many that simply seem to want to go along with the OP's idea even if it is seriously flawed. That 'feel good' factor that the majority not 'in the know' feel when they likely don't even know what they are encouraging the OP to spend on (it's not their money after all, is it? Not their fingers getting cut either).

Realism is cheap enough, fantasy is cheaper. If one knew the aptitude of the OP then a better recommendation is possible, but as far as we know flat packs are their current limit.


LAST YEAR OVER 2 DAYS I CUT.GLUED.SCREWED.SQUARED.NAILED,LEVELED.BEE SPACED,OILED
A HANSOME PIECE of CEDAR INTO 7 NAT BROOD BOXES
that piece of timber cost [ E320 RIPOFF] [ IRELAND]
as this was my Christmas project i did not mind?? and these were for my self,
the big question is time , ability, and capability, by this i mean YOUR !!
in the sales i could have got 7 brood s and 10 supers delivered by courier for what i payed for that cant. But then i would have only assembled them and with a shed full off gear i could not have anybody saying that

power tools i have and they are no toys
power tools are not needed to make a Nat bee hive
a good hand saw, hammer, plane, tape,straight edge, square,
and a good wood chisel is all that is needed the rest are luxuries
gerard

 

[melias]

Thanks for all the posts/responses.
I've decided to go ahead with the project - but using hand tools only.
The way I see it, the project will force me to learn all sorts of things - in the same way that rebuilding a land rover taught me about car mechanics.

I'll let you know how I get on!

 

[Dishmop]

Thanks for all the posts/responses.
I've decided to go ahead with the project - but using hand tools only.
The way I see it, the project will force me to learn all sorts of things - in the same way that rebuilding a land rover taught me about car mechanics.

I'll let you know how I get on!

At least the hive wont need a new chassis.

 

[clv101]

Go for it. Woodworking is a great skill to develop and beekeeping offers plenty of opportunities.

I wouldn't recommend diving into a full blown hive though. First, build a nuke. It's s lot simpler, especially with a fixed floor and will let you know how viable attempting a full hive is.

 

[Teemore]

I have been following this thread but was only prompted to reply when land rovers were mentioned! Good luck with the project - if your saw cuts and measurements are true you'll not go too far wrong.

It is worth noting that rather than having to cut rebates into the 'handles' of a national, you can achieve the same effect by forming the handle/rebate from two pieces of wood - i came across some old brood boxes made like this last year. Essentially you have the brood box wall forming part of the rebate as normal, a slip of wood adjacent to the wall to create the rest of the rebate and then the 'handle' itself. The slip and handle are really just plain bits of timber with the proviso that you may want to joint the ends of the outer handle so they lock the hive together. Hope this makes sense....

 

[Dishmop]

It is worth noting that rather than having to cut rebates into the 'handles' of a national, you can achieve the same effect by forming the handle/rebate from two pieces of wood

Its also quieter and and less for neighbours to complain about.
Doing it in the above manner means that if you get everything cut at B&Q you only need to drill holes.

 

[oliver90owner]

Doing it in the above manner means that if you get everything cut at B&Q you only need to drill holes.

You seem to have missed (even with a strong hint earlier in the thread) that this is supposedly a project on cedar starting with planks from scratch ratehr than just assembling parts.

Do B&Q sell cedar planks? Do they square-edge and thickness them?

If the answer to either question is 'no' you are out of the discussion and on your own little cloud.

 

[Dishmop]

What you seem to have missed is the fact that I was actually quoting and replying to the bit about not having to make rebates, but we do learn to overlooked the fact that you have to find fault so you are forgiven in this instance.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yeahright!

From your post, quote: 'if you get everything cut at B&Q you only need to drill holes.' unquote. I rest my case and suggest you check out those three words (cedar, planks and scratch) in the context of the thread.You might even address the questions posed?

I am fairly certain the answers would be in the negative.