Making foundation

[Antipodes]

The law here requires foundation in the frames...we have lots of regulations down under.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

we have lots of regulations down under.

Reminds me of SWMBO during our honeymoon

 

[pargyle]

The law here requires foundation in the frames...we have lots of regulations down under.

Why ? Why would it be illegal not to use foundation? That's bonkers....

 

[Antipodes]

Why ? Why would it be illegal not to use foundation? That's bonkers....

I'm guessing it is so frames can be removed easily by apiary officers, for disease and pest inspections (varroa, SHB, AFB etc )... See photo and comment in post #36.

 

[Garry R]

If you use silicone foundation mould like the one I make you definitelydo not need a release agent as the wax does not stick to silicone. If you use the roller metal one then you do need a detergent and water release agent then give the sheet a rinse after. However from using one of the old leaf presses a long time ago I remember forgetting to put release agent on - but only once !! A nightmare to pick the wax out of the hexagonals!!

 

[CaptainCymru]

Any impact on leaving a sheet loose in the frame held in with skewers like this?

 

[madasafish]

It will probably end in a mess..The bes will probably workd down from teh top bar and steal the wax from your sheet to do so.
But I am guessing. I would not do it except as an experiment...

 

[CaptainCymru]

It will probably end in a mess..The bes will probably workd down from teh top bar and steal the wax from your sheet to do so.
But I am guessing. I would not do it except as an experiment...

Love your optimism , I've stuck the sheets to the top using molten wax now , if only I just bought the proper sheets !

 

[gmonag]

Why not try fixing a starter strip to the top bar instead?

 

[CaptainCymru]

Why not try fixing a starter strip to the top bar instead?

Dont have any drawn frames, will be a free for all

 

[pargyle]

Dont have any drawn frames, will be a free for all

If you put your sheets of foundation tacked to the top bar then they will build down on it .. dribble a bit of beeswax all along the underside of the top bar and the will follow that and the foundation. They won't generally get creative if the top of the frames are mostly filled with foundation - indeed, even a couple of inches of starter strip under the top bars is usually enough to send them in the right direction downwards in line with the frames and once they start off OK at the top gravity appears to be the main guide they use.

 

[CaptainCymru]

If you put your sheets of foundation tacked to the top bar then they will build down on it .. dribble a bit of beeswax all along the underside of the top bar and the will follow that and the foundation. They won't generally get creative if the top of the frames are mostly filled with foundation - indeed, even a couple of inches of starter strip under the top bars is usually enough to send them in the right direction downwards in line with the frames and once they start off OK at the top gravity appears to be the main guide they use.

Thanks , that's what I've done, put in the skewers as reinforcement then glued the wax sheet in using molten wax along the top bar , it seems very sturdy. I didnt want to buy foundation at £23 per 10 since I will be scraping the whole lot out .now I've got the hang of it ,itl be plain sailing. I got the wax to make the sheets from livemoor.

 

[aj180949]

The law here requires foundation in the frames...we have lots of regulations down under.

Does it have to be a full sheet of foundation? I use just 1" or even less and my bees do not complain.

 

[BigAshW]

I'm wondering if it would be easier/cheaper in the long run, to cut up plastic foundation into strips and just paint wax on that as a starter strip. Would only have to replace the fishing line when a frame need renewing then?

 

[Boston Bees]

I've been foundationless since I started ... you get the occasional wonky comb - but what you don't do is give them a box of empty frames and let them get on with it - because they will get very creative as they have done there. If you give them drawn frames either side of the ones that are foundationless - or even foundation either side - then they will normally draw reasonably straight comb.

Nothing much wrong with these .. a few pockets and twists and turns but reasonably straight and without any assistance from foundation:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/albums/72157636257703495

Love the photos - isn't it spring yet ...... ?

 

[Antipodes]

Does it have to be a full sheet of foundation? I use just 1" or even less and my bees do not complain.

No, I don't think so. From memory, some state/s here have laws detailing a specific depth of foundation. Our law here in Tas makes no mention of a required depth. All state beekeeping laws are different of course. For instance, as I understand it, in Vic., you must be registered, but you don't here yet (there was a period of time when we did), and once you have more than 50 hives here, you have to do a course

 

[Antipodes]

This is a bit from the South Aussie law for instance.

• specifically designed, constructed, operated and maintained so as to have easily removable frames; including being fitted with sufficient frames of the required type and size, with frames to comprise of a minimum of a continuous straight strip of foundation extending to within 10 mm of each end bar, and downwards at least 20 mm

 

[gmonag]

I assume the law is intended to prevent cross-combing, which in turn would prevent inspection for disease. The same logic is used to ban the use of skeps in USA.

 

[hemo]

This is a bit from the South Aussie law for instance.

• specifically designed, constructed, operated and maintained so as to have easily removable frames; including being fitted with sufficient frames of the required type and size, with frames to comprise of a minimum of a continuous straight strip of foundation extending to within 10 mm of each end bar, and downwards at least 20 mm

Sounds just like starter strip size.

 

[Antipodes]

I assume the law is intended to prevent cross-combing, which in turn would prevent inspection for disease. The same logic is used to ban the use of skeps in USA.

Yeah, this is from the Tasmanian legislation...

5. Bees must be kept in standard or approved hives

(1) A person must keep bees in a hive that is –
(a) a standard hive; or
(b) a hive determined by the Chief Veterinary Officer to be suitable for keeping bees.
Penalty: Fine not exceeding 5 penalty units and, in the case of a continuing offence, a further fine not exceeding 0.1 penalty units for each day during which the offence continues.
(2) For the purposes of subregulation (1)(a) , a hive is taken to be a standard hive if it has been constructed in the form of a box and fitted with vertically positioned parallel moveable frames that are –
(a) made of wood, plastic or a similar material; and
(b) placed vertically in the box so as to be separated from the box, and from each other, by a distance of at least 8 millimetres; and
(c) fitted with an approved foundation; and
(d) capable of being readily removed from the box to allow the honeycomb, if any, to be examined.