Local adaption

[Curly green finger's]

This girl is from one of the Italian mongrel colonys.
She looks very yellow in colour.

 

[Finman]

View attachment 22397
This girl is from one of the Italian mongrel colonys.
She looks very yellow in colour.

This may have an Italian father, and others different father.

 

[Finman]

An example, similar in colour to the bee in your avatar.
View attachment 22391

How do you Make difference with Carniolans?

 

[Curly green finger's]

This colony has a Italian mother she is yellow/orange in colour round here thorax and black rings towards here abdomen.
Workers are 50/50 black / yellow.

 

[Swarm]

How do you Make difference with Carniolans?

Colouration among others but DNA analysis confirms it. Had a few samples done now with very favourable results.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Colouration among others but DNA analysis confirms it. Had a few samples done now with very favourable results.

Interesting Steve, samples were taken from association members some were 80% Amm.
Im getting mine done next year when Mike comes up to take samples.
What % were yours?

 

[Hachi]

Fair enough, a good post, but the truth is bees are pretty malleable (if you're not looking for the moon on a stick!).
For instance, defensive bees with occasional followers can be turned into bees workable without gloves and no followers in a very few generations by simple culling and propagation of the nicest ones even in small apiaries of less than a dozen. Of course, the challenge is more up hill if the local drones are a mixed bag and more culling and propagation would be needed to achieve discernable results.
What is gratifying though is that results can be achieved by the average beekeeper or association without having to be rocket surgeons.

Dont disagree at all. I personally think associations should do more instead of wheeling out the same blah blah blah every year. I think associations should have a Q rearing apiary where we're all taught and participate QR and use our own queens. Instead I'm expected to race all over the place and handover every swarm to an almost certain death and pay for the privilege. It probably wont happen because time commitments are needed by the membership to make it a success.

 

[Murox]

Dont disagree at all. I personally think associations should do more instead of wheeling out the same blah blah blah every year. I think associations should have a Q rearing apiary where we're all taught and participate QR and use our own queens. Instead I'm expected to race all over the place and handover every swarm to an almost certain death and pay for the privilege. It probably wont happen because time commitments are needed by the membership to make it a success.

So what do your associations actually do then ? Is this the cue for another thread ?

 

[madasafish]

Dont disagree at all. I personally think associations should do more instead of wheeling out the same blah blah blah every year. I think associations should have a Q rearing apiary where we're all taught and participate QR and use our own queens. Instead I'm expected to race all over the place and handover every swarm to an almost certain death and pay for the privilege. It probably wont happen because time commitments are needed by the membership to make it a success.

We discussed this at the Association Apiary last weekend, and are going to restart QR for beeks with>1 year experience with bees.

 

[Swarm]

Pre Covid, I would agree with your sentiments, Hachi. Rearing queens and creating nucs, with members prepared to help out by bringing on a nuc or two with their own bees to provide bees for beginners. Unfortunately, people tend to be less generous with either time or bees and beginners get left to their own devices.
I've helped out a quite few beekeepers in the past, I like to think it's part of the craft. We can all make increase, it's all about spreading the love, rather than pinch a queen and unite to consolidate numbers, give her to a friend.

 

[Apple]

Pre Covid, I would agree with your sentiments, Hachi. Rearing queens and creating nucs, with members prepared to help out by bringing on a nuc or two with their own bees to provide bees for beginners. Unfortunately, people tend to be less generous with either time or bees and beginners get left to their own devices.
I've helped out a quite few beekeepers in the past, I like to think it's part of the craft. We can all make increase, it's all about spreading the love, rather than pinch a queen and unite to consolidate numbers, give her to a friend.

This season very much I had to concentrate on rearing queens for myself... as the Corona virus restrictions were relaxed I did manage to get over to the breeding group at MtEgecumb on Rame Cornwall to see what they had been up to.
If every region could get a group of such dedicated Amm beekeepers together it would be fantastic.
They are producing some excellent queens.
Start making plans for next season now.
Chons da

 

[Swarm]

Let's hope for even a glimour of normality next season.

I wanted to post this short video taken at the end of May this year, we were hoping to Demarree this colony but found cups with eggs and some in very early stages of being charged so the plan changed. They were a big colony on brood and a half plus four supers so you can see the half, minus queen and frame, the brood minus frames for a nuc and four stacked supers. As you can see, the bees are very well behaved despite all the disruption. The smoker (always light your smoker) is on the floor and wasn't used. Hopefully the three queens raised from this colony will be the same.

Thanks to Dani for helping (doing it all) as I am a dinosaur....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qikri9sjpzzp308/Steve’s bees (1).mov?dl=0

 

[E&MBees]

Let's hope for even a glimour of normality next season.

I wanted to post this short video taken at the end of May this year, we were hoping to Demarree this colony but found cups with eggs and some in very early stages of being charged so the plan changed. They were a big colony on brood and a half plus four supers so you can see the half, minus queen and frame, the brood minus frames for a nuc and four stacked supers. As you can see, the bees are very well behaved despite all the disruption. The smoker (always light your smoker) is on the floor and wasn't used. Hopefully the three queens raised from this colony will be the same.

Thanks to Dani for helping (doing it all) as I am a dinosaur....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qikri9sjpzzp308/Steve’s bees (1).mov?dl=0

Lovely bees, Steve.

 

[Angry_Mob]

Colouration among others but DNA analysis confirms it. Had a few samples done now with very favourable results.

I've always wondered how to tell the difference in AMM and AMC. What things in terms of colouration do you look for? Is there any other tell tale signs without having to send them for testing?

 

[Swarm]

Richer brown colouration is the only way I can describe it, more chestnut than greyish brown. Hair length, tomenta bands and abdomen hair.
Sounds stupid but see them in the sunshine and they have a golden glow around them, I've never seen that with Carnica.
We sent samples for testing more to confirm what we had always suspected to be honest and had the opportunity with Dylan Elan carrying out his survey.

 

[Hachi]

So what do your associations actually do then ? Is this the cue for another thread ?

None have done QR as described that I've been in

 

[elainemary]

Interesting piece of research I found to add to the discussion, which supports the earlier point made that AMM genes persist in the UK. Seems AMM queens have an inbuilt genetic preference for mating with AMM drones.
Here’s an extract “The purebredness in honey bee population of A. m. mellifera can be protected by an assortative mating mechanism where purebred dark European honey bee queens prefer mating with only purebred dark European honey bee drones (Oleksa et al. 2013). This multiple mating and assortative mating behaviors allow honey bee colonies of A. m. mellifera to adapt to a rapidly changing environment”
Elaine

 

[E&MBees]

None have done QR as described that I've been in

It would be good to do some, or at least learn about the principles.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Interesting piece of research I found to add to the discussion, which supports the earlier point made that AMM genes persist in the UK. Seems AMM queens have an inbuilt genetic preference for mating with AMM drones.
Here’s an extract “The purebredness in honey bee population of A. m. mellifera can be protected by an assortative mating mechanism where purebred dark European honey bee queens prefer mating with only purebred dark European honey bee drones (Oleksa et al. 2013). This multiple mating and assortative mating behaviors allow honey bee colonies of A. m. mellifera to adapt to a rapidly changing environment”
Elaine

Thanks for the link.
I’m not a statistician but I have a grasp of what the researchers were doing
Does this mean that if Amm queens preferentially mate with Amm drones providing there are some in the vicinity worrying about your neighbour’s yellow bees is misplaced?

 

[masterBK]

and I always thought it was the drones choosing who to chase after and mate with (and sacrificing their lives in the process!).