Light touch management

[enrico]

You also have a responsibility to check you bees for disease.
Disease that has potential to spread to other bee colonies in your area.

Why do you have a responsibility? Morally may be but .....
E

 

[Swarm]

There are others who have sited 'wild' boxes with the intention to attract swarms. The plan is for the bees to remain 'feral', not managed and pretty much left to their own devices.

 

[SaraR]

My initial intention was just to do something to help out honey bees after reading about the problems they face. I have a perfect spot under a cherry tree in my garden for a hive, and it's proved to be a success...so far.

Wouldn't it then be a good idea to do an artificial swarm as needed to keep your old bees happy and provide a new home in a good location for the swarm? If it flies off it might not find a new home and might not make it, or it might be caught by a conventional beekeeper. By doing AS you let your bees follow their natural instinct and you help the species by increasing the number of thriving colonies.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

With just one colony that only got going last July I'm in the same sort of position. I've not been a beekeeper through a swarm season yet and I live in the middle of a small town.

Leafing through the whole of a brood box every 7, 8, 9 days must be a significant disturbance. Could you check for swarm cells by taking off the supers and just tilting the BB back to check the bottom on the frames for QCs? I hear commercial beekeepers use this as they don't have time to go through every frame.

The state of my colony is that I've either squashed the queen during an inspection or she's stopped laying and the worker brood comb is becoming empty. My mite count is rising and I've been seeing workers and now drones with DWV. If you don't manage them you're more likely to loose them.

My aim this year was to make more colonies but not looking good at the moment.

. .. . Ben

 

[drex]

Yes you can just do a tip inspection, but it not foolproof. I run double brood, and do a tip, then just look at a couple of frames from the middle of the top box, unless doing disease inspection when I check every frame

 

[pargyle]

....With just one colony that only got going last July I'm in the same sort of position. I've not been a beekeeper through a swarm season yet and I live in the middle of a small town.

@Parsonage Bees ....Make, buy or beg another box of some sort BEFORE you need it - not when it's TOO LATE ! Even if it's just a cobbled together nuc or box of some sort - you are flying by the seat of your pants with no ability to split/AS/or hive a swarm

Leafing through the whole of a brood box every 7, 8, 9 days must be a significant disturbance. Could you check for swarm cells by taking off the supers and just tilting the BB back to check the bottom on the frames for QCs? I hear commercial beekeepers use this as they don't have time to go through every frame.

It is possible but they don't always build swarm cells on the bottom of the frames ... so you could miss some and they they will swarm anyway. There are tell tale signs of swarming and it's safer to inspect every week to 10 days - it does not have to be an intensive inspection. You are only really interested in the brood frames so you just start at the back and lift the frames until you come to the brood - make space by taking out the dummy board at the back or one of the frames with stores in it.

Then when you get to the brood it's up, look at that face, turn, look at the other face, down ... just looking for queen cells and that there is brood/eggs and no brood disease present.


The state of my colony is that I've either squashed the queen during an inspection or she's stopped laying and the worker brood comb is becoming empty. My mite count is rising and I've been seeing workers and now drones with DWV. If you don't manage them you're more likely to loose them.

Firstly, signs of DWV ... need to treat for Varroa NOW.... No brainer. You are in a bit of a quandary now with only one hive because what you need is a frame with eggs to test whether your hive is actually queenless. Is there anyone you can beg or borrow a frame of eggs from ? Otherwise, if your queen is not laying there is only one place that colony is going - extinction.

My aim this year was to make more colonies but not looking good at the moment.

**** happens ... no need to beat yourself up - what you need to do is establish firmly what the state of your colony is and then have a plan as to what to do about it ... be it new queen, new colony or try to rescue the bees you have....

. .. . Bene

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Thanks drex and pargyle for that comprehensive reply.

Yes, have another full set of National boxes and a double nuc ready.

I'd hoped to go without treatment but current thinking is you have to have a few more hives so you can handle the losses. And have more experience. I'm going to cull a drone frame and add MAQS after this cold snap is over. Then 7 days after beg a frame with eggs.

It's not fun having a sick colony in the garden. Not good to see DWV strugglers.

Seen first flying drone today on a positive note. Let's hear it for the boys!

. . . . Ben

 

[madasafish]

You also have a responsibility to check you bees for disease.
Disease that has potential to spread to other bee colonies in your area.

Beekeepers keep bees in densities of numbers of colonies which is NOT natural.

Hence the disease comment..

If you have just one beekeeper within a 2-3 mile radius you have a duty of care ( not in the legal sense) to ensure your bees do not transmit the worst diseases - AFB and EFB to that other beekeeper.#

Most have tens near them.. or more.

(Imagine the fuss if you kept chickens and ignored bird flu warnings... which is the nearest equivalent I can think of)

# I speak from bitter personal experience.

 

[drex]

Sorry, but I agree with pargyle. With DWV you need to treat NOW. With little brood, as you say, oxalic acid dribble would be very effective. I have no experience of maqs, and understand it does need a minimum temp, even if it is colder than that temp, and is all you have, I might Bung it in now. This colony will be dwindling rapidly and needs urgent action if ( and possibly a big if) you are going to save it. Also need to get more bees in there asap.
Nothing against no treatment or light touch management, but it might be better to get a bit more experience under your belt, in particular in reading the bees and the frames, before branching out

 

[alfazer]

Why do you have a responsibility? Morally may be but .....
E

i really didn't think it needed an explanation, but yes, morally, and I don't have a problem with that.

I'd like to think if you were a beekeeper in my neighbourhood that you'd feel the same way without needing a world of laws and legal letters to tell you how to keep your bees.

Same for other things; dropping litter, dog poop, skipping the queue, giving up my seat to the old lady on the bus.

 

[bingevader]

dropping litter, dog poop

We have laws (or at least legislation and fines!) for those 2 and what good does it do!

Aren't we all irresponsible bee keepers?!
Hand on heart, accidentally or not, who hasn't lost bees to a swarm?!

But I think conversation and education are the key here.
Speak to your neighbours and describe what you plan.
When, despite management, we lost some bees, from what we assume was one of our hives, last year to a neighbour's garden, she was at first rather perturbed.
We had a good chat and removed the bees and promised some honey if we had some and all was well.
If there's a resounding NO! to your lack of swarm prevention, then clearly, you'll have to at least attempt something.

 

[enrico]

i really didn't think it needed an explanation, but yes, morally, and I don't have a problem with that.

I'd like to think if you were a beekeeper in my neighbourhood that you'd feel the same way without needing a world of laws and legal letters to tell you how to keep your bees.

Same for other things; dropping litter, dog poop, skipping the queue, giving up my seat to the old lady on the bus.

I politely disagree. If you are merely providing bees with a home because you feel that that is a good thing to do then why should you be responsible for checking bees for desease. I too would like to think that you would do so but all I am trying to say is that it is not wrong to fail to do so. Is providing a home for bees better than not doing so because you can't check for desease.
I understand both sides of the argument I just think that 'responsibility' is a strong word if you have bees for a reason other than farming honey.
It didn't need an explanation, merely an understanding of other people's intentions. Xx
E

 

[alldigging]

I politely disagree. If you are merely providing bees with a home because you feel that that is a good thing to do

and I'll have to disagree too.

Would the five freedoms apply to bees? You could argue that one you offer a home to bees then you have a responsibility to them.

Freedom from hunger or thirst by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour
[Let them fly so they can access their diet, and provide them with food when there is none}

Freedom from discomfort by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area
[A hive}

Freedom from pain, injury or disease by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment
[And here we have it, checking for disease is one of the five freedoms...]

Freedom to express (most) normal behaviour by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind
[You have to keep more than one bee or more than one hive?]

Freedom from fear and distress by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering
[don't tease the bees or call them names?]

 

[colinc]

and I'll have to disagree too.



Would the five freedoms apply to bees? You could argue that one you offer a home to bees then you have a responsibility to them.



Freedom from hunger or thirst by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour

[Let them fly so they can access their diet, and provide them with food when there is none}



Freedom from discomfort by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area

[A hive}



Freedom from pain, injury or disease by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment

[And here we have it, checking for disease is one of the five freedoms...]



Freedom to express (most) normal behaviour by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind

[You have to keep more than one bee or more than one hive?]



Freedom from fear and distress by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering

[don't tease the bees or call them names?]

I'd agree. Providing a "home" to a swarm if you do not intend to check on them and leave them to fight varroa, DWV and others, would be morally worse than leaving them to go on their way, live wild if they choose and possibly be collected by someone who would look after them.


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[enrico]

I'd agree. Providing a "home" to a swarm if you do not intend to check on them and leave them to fight varroa, DWV and others, would be morally worse than leaving them to go on their way, live wild if they choose and possibly be collected by someone who would look after them.


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So looking after bees is better than living wild!!! Ok I give in, I was just voicing thoughts really, not necessarily believing what I was saying. Thanks for the debate
E