Licensed or Generic Oxalic Acid - newish NBU advice!

[Finman]

.http://www.thorne.co.uk/health-and-feeding/varroa/oxalic-based?product_id=5728

1 litre oxalic liguid is for about 25 hives.

Bottle price + posting costs.

From 100 g oxalic powder you get treatment for 50 hives.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If they got rid of all the wrong advice they give there wouldn't be much left would there?

 

[Finman]

So, once it becomes toxic to wildlife, it then becomes acceptable to pour it down a drain, where it will either flow into a watercourse or back into the human food chain?

.

That is pure and lack of knowledge. Toxic to wildlife? Do you know how much plants has oxalic acid?.

And to human food chain from river or from ground water..... Never.

http://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/215-oxalic-acid-content-vegetables.html

....varroa treatment with oxalic and human health

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...sidue_Limits_-_Report/2009/11/WC500015217.pdf
.

Oxalic acid is favored because it is natural component of living organisms
.

 

[wessexmario]

That is pure and lack of knowledge. Toxic to wildlife?

I'm only quoting the contradictions in their advice: First they say it's toxic to bees, then they say it's safe to pour in into a drain. (against all other official advice).
If they say it's not safe for bees, why are they assuming it's not toxic for anything else?

And to human food chain from river or from ground water..... Never.

in the UK, much of the water that goes into the drains goes through water treatment works and is pumped back into the water mains. (it's not all fjords here you know. )
The water companies don't want people to put chemicals into the drains, it's a cost to the water supply to clean it out.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The water companies don't want people to put chemicals into the drains, it's a cost to the water supply to clean it out.

People better stop putting all those other weird and wonderful things down their toilets and sinks as well then.

 

[Finman]

I'm only quoting the contradictions in their advice: First they say it's toxic to bees, then they say it's safe to pour in into a drain. (against all other official advice).
If they say it's not safe for bees, why are they assuming it's not toxic for anything else?



in the UK, much of the water that goes into the drains goes through water treatment works and is pumped back into the water mains. (it's not all fjords here you know. )
The water companies don't want people to put chemicals into the drains, it's a cost to the water supply to clean it out.

Fjords are in Norwegian coast and have 3% salt water. We have not fjords in Finland either.

You may pour oxalate solution into ground. Bacteria eate it.

Oxalic acid is safe to bees. That is why it is used. Bees body can burn the acid, if it is eaten. It turns to carbondiokside and water.
Oxalic acid has been used to bees over 20 years.

Honey has more and less oxalic acid naturally. Treament lifts content few percents.
.

.

 

[wessexmario]

You may pour oxalate solution into ground. Bacteria eate it.

That would be better advice for the BBKA to give.

 

[Ely]

People better stop putting all those other weird and wonderful things down their toilets and sinks as well then.

I was thinking that myself. I wonder how many gallons of household cleaning chemicals go into the system on a daily basis? Bleach, mr muscle, washing up liquid, shower gel, shampoo, shaving foam etc etc. It gets cleaned. All part of the procedure. Seems silly to worry about natural occuring oxalic

 

[Hivemaker.]

Honey has more and less oxalic acid naturally. Treament lifts content few percents.
.

I was thinking that myself. I wonder how many gallons of household cleaning chemicals go into the system on a daily basis? Bleach, mr muscle, washing up liquid, shower gel, shampoo, shaving foam etc etc. It gets cleaned. All part of the procedure. Seems silly to worry about natural occuring oxalic

Add honey to that list as well, how many wash out their extracting equipment etc, and pour the waste down the drain, could have high HMF due to the oxalic content and be classed as toxic waste, to be collected and disposed of by the local authorities.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was thinking that myself. I wonder how many gallons of household cleaning chemicals go into the system on a daily basis? Bleach, mr muscle, washing up liquid, shower gel, shampoo, shaving foam etc etc. It gets cleaned. All part of the procedure. Seems silly to worry about natural occuring oxalic

Not just that - the big problems nowadays is hormones - so much oestrogen etc being pumped into our watercourses that fish are to all intents and purposes changing sex - less fertilisation, fish populations at risk etc.
Blame promiscuity and the popularity of the magic smartie you could say the legacy of 'wonderful swinging sixties' now wrecking the earth.
Another example of the hippy type doing more damage than good - friends of the earth my a....

 

[alanf]

For boating purposes, oxalic is used as a stain remover, half a kilo in 5 litre bucket of water. Apply with a brush to the hull or deck and wash off with water. Most of that will run off directly into the watercourse without any treatment. The quantities used are why many of the suppliers list it first as a stain remover. It's the active ingredient in some cleaners, Bar Keepers Friend is the usual example. Wash out your bar equipment and rinse down the sink.

Rhubarb leaves are 3% oxalic, parsley around 2%. Lots of other green veg is in the 0.5 to 1% range. It's named after Oxalis, a daisy like plant it was isolated from. It's part of the natural cycle, made by plants, broken down by soil or water bacteria. A few cm3 of 3% oxalic down the sink or on a gravel surface isn't a problem.

 

[midnight sun]

.
It is very simple:



Check with coin, that you scale measures right. Cheapest may show wrong numbers in tiny loads. Two pence coin is 7.1 g


Or an eighth of 'gear'. Right Irishguy? LOL

 

[Ely]

Not just that - the big problems nowadays is hormones - so much oestrogen etc being pumped into our watercourses that fish are to all intents and purposes changing sex - less fertilisation, fish populations at risk etc.
Blame promiscuity and the popularity of the magic smartie you could say the legacy of 'wonderful swinging sixties' now wrecking the earth.
Another example of the hippy type doing more damage than good - friends of the earth my a....

Well don't look at me. I can't remember the last time I got any action. That's why I took up beekeeping. I was so sure the chicks were bound to 'dig it' man.

They didn't

 

[Amari]

.
It is very simple:
You have a digital kitchen balance (£15) and oxalic powder.
Then measure onto scale 100 g water, 100 g sugar and 7,5 g acid.
you get solution for 3-5 hives.
Check with coin, that you scale measures right. Cheapest may show wrong numbers in tiny loads. Two pence coin is 7.1 g
http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/coin-design-and-specifications/fifty-pence-coin
Cast extra solution away, because it is almost free.
.

 

[Apple]

.
It is very simple:

You have a digital kitchen balance (£15) and oxalic powder.

Then measure onto scale 100 g water, 100 g sugar and 7,5 g acid.

you get solution for 3-5 hives.

Check with coin, that you scale measures right. Cheapest may show wrong numbers in tiny loads. Two pence coin is 7.1 g
http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/coin-design-and-specifications/fifty-pence-coin


Cast extra solution away, because it is almost free.
.

Alternatively measure 100ml of water with an accurate pippete and use that to calibrate your chosen weighing machine as it will weigh exactly 100g ( be sure to use triple distilled water!)

It is illegal to use coins of the realm as calibration weights in the UK


James

 

[Apple]

Our local T* agent, has ceased selling Trickle 2 from T* because...

the NBU has responded by changing their advice to beekeepers to recommend the use of licensed OA by Endolapi in Italy and Ecoxal in Spain.

Last year I spoke to an Inspector, and he told me he would continue using generic OA, but he would not list it on his medical record, in fear if they were going to make an example of someone, it would be a Bee Inspector!

Comments?

MY WORD

Any beekeeper who would deliberately open up a colony of bees in midwinter to pour acid over the poor things should be reported to the RSPCA for animal cruelty and thus prosecuted!

About as archaic as plunging sheep into a vat of organophosphate, but MAFF insisted we do it, or end up on the naughty chair!

Half term, then we get manic for Christmas!




James

 

[madasafish]

MY WORD

Any beekeeper who would deliberately open up a colony of bees in midwinter to pour acid over the poor things should be reported to the RSPCA for animal cruelty and thus prosecuted!

About as archaic as plunging sheep into a vat of organophosphate, but MAFF insisted we do it, or end up on the naughty chair!

Half term, then we get manic for Christmas!




James

Mixed simile. Bees are not animals.. And so prosecution is not an option..#

I personally don't use oxalic acid but your outburst is intemperate (in my view) as well as inaccurate..

# as has been commented on before on this forum But I think you already know that.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

your outburst is intemperate (in my view) as well as inaccurate..

By the tone of his other posts this morning, must have picked a few 'wrong' mushrooms for his breakfast this morning

 

[Ely]

MY WORD

Any beekeeper who would deliberately open up a colony of bees in midwinter to pour acid over the poor things should be reported to the RSPCA for animal cruelty and thus prosecuted!

About as archaic as plunging sheep into a vat of organophosphate, but MAFF insisted we do it, or end up on the naughty chair!

Half term, then we get manic for Christmas!




James

Pure ignorance. I suggest you read an article on the method

 

[Hivemaker.]

Are insects animals?

Anyone who might be a little unclear on this one, I gently suggest a trip to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylogenetic_tree