Hurrah for Thorne's - they still sell generic oxalic acid crystals!

[Amari]

Just received T's paper catalogue. Their 'Introduction' states "Sadly, you won't find Trickle 2 or oxalic acid solution in our catalogue. The Veterinary Medicines Directorate have instructed that this must be withdrawn...."
But Hurrah! they still sell oxalic acid crystals (p.65) for 'cleaning weathered cedar..." !!
Puzzlingly, T's website still lists generic OA as a Varroa treatment. I fear they risk imminent prosecution.

https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=oxalic acid&product_id=1708

I still can't get my head round the logic of banning generic OA - but this has been forked over on the Forum before. Big Pharma I suppose. I think BBKA should have mounted a vigorous objection.
Meanwhile I'll continue vapping my crystallised distillate of rhubarb leaves.....

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Just received T's paper catalogue. Their 'Introduction' states "Sadly, you won't find Trickle 2 or oxalic acid solution in our catalogue. The Veterinary Medicines Directorate have instructed that this must be withdrawn...."
But Hurrah! they still sell oxalic acid crystals (p.65) for 'cleaning weathered cedar..." !!
Puzzlingly, T's website still lists generic OA as a Varroa treatment. I fear they risk imminent prosecution.

https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=oxalic acid&product_id=1708

I still can't get my head round the logic of banning generic OA - but this has been forked over on the Forum before. Big Pharma I suppose. I think BBKA should have mounted a vigorous objection.
Meanwhile I'll continue vapping my crystallised distillate of rhubarb leaves.....

The BBKA's failure to look after the interests of their members has, in my opinion, been a classic demonstration of how not to serve the people who pay for their existence. Let us watch the performance now changes of personnel has taken place.
At least the situation with taking money from neonic manufacturers appears to have been resolved?

 

[Beefriendly]

I still can't get my head round the logic of banning generic OA - but this has been forked over on the Forum before. Big Pharma I suppose. I think BBKA should have mounted a vigorous objection.

Generic Oxalic acid has never been a legally approved UK treatment for varroa either by trickling or vaporizing. Although a very wise blind eye was turned to its use by many beekeepers.
The first legal approved UK use of Oxalic acid for varroa treatment was Apibioxal. If rumor is correct, a BBKA executive member was heavily involved in assisting the licencing process for the Italian company Chemicals LAIF.
The trick now is get legal approval for generic oxalic acid particularly for vaporization. Apibioxal is unsuited to use in vaporizers, despite the claims on the packet. It gums them up with the non subliminals present (glucose and silica).
It would be a very worth while cause for the BBKA to pursue a legal status for generic pure unadulterated Oxalic acid....but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Amari]

Well said.

 

[For want of a better word]

I buy oxallic acid solely for the purpose of cleaning my WRC didgeridoo...


Professional musician... I get paid not to play it!!!

Nos da

 

[rdmw]

It is great for cleaning the insides of hives. I did it easier to leave the bees inside whilst doing so. They don't seem to mind


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[Millet]

Them manky moldy inspection trays come up brand new with the stuff i get of fleabay and so do my rusty old bits of metal soaked over night, i do not use it for the bees welfare though..

 

[Erichalfbee]

Them manky moldy inspection trays come up brand new with the stuff i get of fleabay and so do my rusty old bits of metal soaked over night, i do not use it for the bees welfare though..

Have you joined the legions of beekeepers that don't treat but keep their hives squeaky clean,then?

 

[dpearce4]

Have you joined the legions of beekeepers that don't treat but keep their hives squeaky clean,then?

I was wondering what to clean my new hives with. Having looked and seen that it is sold for cleaning yachts with and I use yacht varnish I have my solution in more than one way. lol

 

[colinc]

This is the legal stand point with regards to the use of licenced medications in the uk according to the veterinary medicine directorate who enforce these things.

From a legal stand point you should use api-bioxal first trickled or sublimated but can then use alternatives in each category in order under the prescription of a vet.
Just putting it out there so people are informed. Good luck trying to find a vet to write a prescription to save the ten-fold price supplement of AB over cleaning OA.

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[Stiffy]

And the BBKA are doing what to address this nonsense?
S

 

[colinc]

It's the VMD that advises and organises and arranges enforcement of these rules. It is an issue for vets too. Drugs we have prescribed for 20-30 years as generic human (read cheap) drugs are being licenced by profiteering drug companies, despite pre existing use you then have to prescribe the licenced drug and pass on the inflated price. There is a certain Irish drug company where this seems to be their business plan at the moment and very profitable it is too by the look of things. They have always previously seemed to sell generic drugs from other companies products and now are Licencing drugs for the gaps in the market.
Now watch as licences appear over the next few years for thymol and all the other things you might want to put into a bee hive.........


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[REDWOOD]

It's all wrong that profiteers are feeding of beekeepers who are trying to kill a mite that has destroyed so many colonies over the years. It's about time somebody put this right

 

[Swarm]

If they happened upon a treatment that totally kills varroa, I suspect it would never see the light of day.

 

[simoncav]

Oxalic acid and the VMD

As a trustee of the BBKA, I can tell you that this is something that we have discussed between ourselves to see if we might be able to help. One issue we can see is that the VMD is going to want to qualify what exactly "Oxalic acid" is.

If they work with an individual supplier, then there is a specification for a particular drug or compound. That can then be submitted into the VMD approval process, tested and eventually approved for use (hopefully).

I think there would have to be a particular specification/concentration etc for Oxalic acid to be submitted to the VMD to start the approval process.

It would be useful to talk to someone with some real knowledge in this space.

Simon

 

[Millet]

Have you joined the legions of beekeepers that don't treat but keep their hives squeaky clean,then?

Just messing on , if i never treated my bees in Autumn and winter i doubt they would be here now from the amount of mites they where dropping after each treatment.

 

[colinc]

As a trustee of the BBKA, I can tell you that this is something that we have discussed between ourselves to see if we might be able to help. One issue we can see is that the VMD is going to want to qualify what exactly "Oxalic acid" is.



If they work with an individual supplier, then there is a specification for a particular drug or compound. That can then be submitted into the VMD approval process, tested and eventually approved for use (hopefully).



I think there would have to be a particular specification/concentration etc for Oxalic acid to be submitted to the VMD to start the approval process.



It would be useful to talk to someone with some real knowledge in this space.



Simon

As the licenced product in the U.K. API-Bioxal must have already been through this process, or it wouldn't be licenced and therefore illegal to use anything else.


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[Gilberdyke John]

As a trustee of the BBKA, I can tell you that this is something that we have discussed between ourselves to see if we might be able to help. One issue we can see is that the VMD is going to want to qualify what exactly "Oxalic acid" is.

If they work with an individual supplier, then there is a specification for a particular drug or compound. That can then be submitted into the VMD approval process, tested and eventually approved for use (hopefully).

I think there would have to be a particular specification/concentration etc for Oxalic acid to be submitted to the VMD to start the approval process.

It would be useful to talk to someone with some real knowledge in this space.

Simon

Try talking to the Americans - I'm told that the FDA have solved the problem. I'm hoping to see a more can do attitude from the new trustees.

 

[Beefriendly]

If they work with an individual supplier, then there is a specification for a particular drug or compound.

There is a legal requirement for all chemical manufacturers to state the purity of the product they sell. It has to be written on the container/jar/bottle.
In the case of oxalic acid sold as Deck cleaner (see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-5kg-oxa...934113?hash=item2cbac37aa1:g:pkQAAOSwoudW1w9s ) even this general purpose reagent is 99.6% pure.
A simple specification of e.g greater than 99% pure would suffice. I'm not sure you would even need to specify any single supplier....as has happened with Apibioxal.

It just needs an organised body to step forward to work out what needs to be done. The BBKA would be doing all beekeepers an enormous service if they were to pursue this issue for the legalisation of pure Oxalic acid for varroa treatment.

 

[Hivemaker.]

It would be useful to talk to someone with some real knowledge in this space.

Could perhaps ask this person to get involved in getting generic oxalic registered....

a BBKA executive member was heavily involved in assisting the licencing process for the Italian company Chemicals LAIF.