Laying workers

[Etton]

I think I have a couple of Q- laying worker hives. Just thinking of my options and wondered if I had a captured swarm could I immediately box them then put this above the Q- hive using the newspaper method of combining/merging the bees?

 

[Poly Hive]

Why do you "think" you have this situation?

PH

 

[Heather]

The swarm may leg it if disturbed by newcomers initially. Wait till swarm well settled,with brood then join another colony on top of them.
BUT
Laying workers... NO, you need to remove those bees that have developed laying tendency first.. IMO.
Shake out the bees about 30' from their site. All will come back to the brood box but hopefully laying workers have become heavier and wont return. Then may be safer to join. Dont want those layers in the colony.
But am sure others will disagree...

 

[Finman]

. All will come back to the brood box but hopefully laying workers have become heavier and wont return. D

That old story. But it is proper in your climate.

Normally hive has tens and hundreds laying workers. And more arise if you shake them into lawn.

..

University of Cheffield revieled the proplem (policing) 15 y ago, but knowledge has not accept by hobby beekeepers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

First, thinking they might be queenless is not enough. You have to know.
Then plan what to do.
As for laying workers, shaking out works only if you have other colonies for the bees to find a home in. You have to take the shaken hive away. All the bees will be able to fly laying or not.if requeening with a swarm I would let the queen in it lay a frame up first

 

[Etton]

First, thinking they might be queenless is not enough. You have to know.
Then plan what to do.
As for laying workers, shaking out works only if you have other colonies for the bees to find a home in. You have to take the shaken hive away. All the bees will be able to fly laying or not.if requeening with a swarm I would let the queen in it lay a frame up first

Thanks for answers. Q- no eggs or brood but plenty of drone cells. Will leave another week just in case. It was a 'what if' question.... if I had a swarm when q- in a hive. Think I will take advice given if that happens and wait until q laying. Will try eggs again in q- colony.

 

[Beefriendly]

Now is the time to act before the laying workers really get started. You probably have drone brood left because it takes longer to develop. Leave another week and possibly you will have laying workers. Perhaps best to get test frames into each hive ASAP. Brood pheromone will delay LW progression and they may (if Q-) raise another queen.

 

[Beefriendly]

University of Cheffield revieled the proplem (policing) 15 y ago, but knowledge has not accept by hobby beekeepers.

Finman do you know if they ever figured out whether it was the stopping of worker policing that allowed the LW eggs to develop, or was there just a higher percentage of laying workers (after been broodless) which meant there were insufficient "police" left to remove all the eggs now being laid.

 

[Karsal]

I once had a situation with a hive that had laying workers. Is it REALLY a good idea to shake them out and watch them beg entry into another colony.
I did shake mine out and then proceeded to watch the carnage at the two hives entrances. It was mayhem and to be honest I never saw one bee manage to gain entry into either. The result was two colonies defending their hives to the death with literally thousands of dead bees on the floor at each hive. IT DID NOT WORK!

 

[Finman]

Finman do you know if they ever figured out whether it was the stopping of worker policing that allowed the LW eggs to develop, or was there just a higher percentage of laying workers (after been broodless) which meant there were insufficient "police" left to remove all the eggs now being laid.

Read from orignal research. You have invented some odd asking accu.

But there are no fat workers what you should shake 100 yards away. It is pure fairytale. And fat workers fly. You can see when you look bees which are full of honey. They fly 25 km/h.
.
Like that fairytale: Fastest drone win in mating.... I bet that it is nearest.

Fairytales are nice! Do not give up.

 

[Beefriendly]

Read from orignal research. You have invented some odd asking accu.
.

I'll take that as a "don't know" then.

 

[Plenty of honey]

firstly, be sure you have laying workers and not a drone laying queen. often confused, but most easy diagnosis is the absence of multiple eggs in cells and fairly even distribution of neatly laid drone cells in a drone laying queen(not worker cell brood obviously)
i make a decision here, if its a small colony and laying workers, i just shake it out infront of an adjacent colony and move on! if its a fair amount of bees, say 4 frames or more, i add brood.
Have a read of this, http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm its really good. I dont subscribe to most of the authors mantra, but for this its quite excellent and always work, but you need brood, aka other colonies nearby to turn off your laying workers (by adding brood)
Shaking frames out 200 meters away is really not much good, it may help, but those laying workers can surely still fly.
Peter Little gave me this link last year. I've passed it on to many since, and its all logical and self explanatory.

 

[Finman]

I'll take that as a "don't know" then.

I do not care. I know everything.

I looked David Cushman pages. There was some policing text but then he moved the hive 100 yeards.. Like granpa.

#####

Laying workers will be developed, when the colony is hopelesly queenless.

Hopeles means that they have lost the queen and they have no eggs or young larvae, where they can rear new queens. I have seen it when I have taken the queen from mating nuc and they do not have yeat eggs.

So, give to them a brood frame, from where they have eggs and small larvae. It is grazy to move the hive anywhere. Via brood frame the colony becomes normal.

When the colony is able to rear queens, there is no idea then to colony to keep laying workers. The colony is then in normal stage.

####

If the colony has very old bees, add a frame, which has emerging bees. After few days the colony has young home bees which can start queen rearing.
.

 

[enrico]

I agree with finman, you have brood all be it drone brood, you have not said when the laying of worker brood stopped but queens do go off lay. In answer to your question, no I would not add a swarm to that hive but I would add a frame of brood. If they need a queen they will do their damdest to raise one.
I would certainly be patient. One queenless hive maybe, two unlikely unless you are doing something unusual.
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

I once had a situation with a hive that had laying workers. Is it REALLY a good idea to shake them out and watch them beg entry into another colony.
I did shake mine out and then proceeded to watch the carnage at the two hives entrances. It was mayhem and to be honest I never saw one bee manage to gain entry into either. The result was two colonies defending their hives to the death with literally thousands of dead bees on the floor at each hive. IT DID NOT WORK!

Did you smoke them really well and leave for half an hour before shaking out?

 

[Beefriendly]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm its really good. I dont subscribe to most of the authors mantra, but for this its quite excellent and always work, but you need brood, aka other colonies nearby to turn off your laying workers (by adding brood)

I'm not sure you are turning the LW "off" with the frames of brood. More likely waiting for them to die of old age given the three or four week time scale usually quoted for this method. I've always thought of this as akin to a long waiting game, made even longer by the 16 days for queen to develop and then get mated added on top. With the new emerged brood being the feeders for the queen cells after the last of the LW has died and they think they are queenless again. Well that's my explanation of why I think it works

 

[Etton]

Now is the time to act before the laying workers really get started. You probably have drone brood left because it takes longer to develop. Leave another week and possibly you will have laying workers. Perhaps best to get test frames into each hive ASAP. Brood pheromone will delay LW progression and they may (if Q-) raise another queen.

I may move some test frames of eggs & brood from my home hive to the apiary, I know it depends on the temp and weather but does anyone have a view on how long eggs & brood can stay ok outside a hive? In my case it could be 15 mins

 

[Finman]

I'm not sure you are turning the LW "off" with the frames of brood.

I am sure. I noticed that 30 years ago and then 15 y ago I got explantion from Sheffield.

And I am not afraid of laying workers. I have requeened every of those colonies.


30 Y ago I noticed that queenless mating nuc made in two hours hundreds of eggs. I realize that one fat arse worker cannot do that even in 2 days.

I put a brood frame into a nuc and worker laying stopped. And so I handed it.

It is not hard to see, how it happens. Trust your brains and eyes.

I shaked one hive 50 y ago and that was enough to me.

 

[Finman]

I may move some test frames of eggs & brood from my home hive to the apiary, I know it depends on the temp and weather but does anyone have a view on how long eggs & brood can stay ok outside a hive? In my case it could be 15 mins

You can cut small piece of brood comb and put it under the shirt agains you warm belly skin (inside plastin bag). 5 x 5 cm is enough.

This way I have moved brood when I draft queen cells and I move long distances.

As young with bicycle.
.

 

[Poly Hive]

Moved brood four hours with no issues.

Still waiting to hear why the OP thinks there are laying workers.

PH