Larvae removed from cell cups

[Noddy]

I did my first full batch of grafting yesterday, with piss poor result. All the cups have been emptied by the bees.

There is definitely no queen in the hive, mated or virgin.
The hive was left queen less for 24 hours before the grafted cells were placed in the hive, having first checked for any queen cells.
The cell bar, with empty cups, was left in the hive for the bees to polish/clean.
The larvae grafted were all the right age - I'll try to attach a photo.
The hive is bursting with bees, I made the hive up a week ago with brood frames from other hives, and lots of extra nurse bees shaken in.
The hive is well fed with 1:1 syrup which they are taking without problem.

My syrup mix is:
3kg sugar
3L of filtered and boiled water
15g Ascorbic acid (3g per Litre of mix)
8 drops lemon grass oil
Mix makes 5L syrup

I found this recipe some time ago on the web, and have used it ever since with no problems.

I have done grafting before, again with good success. I have done the odd half dozen already this year, which are all now mated.

Any advice or suggestions as to what might have gone wrong? The worst I have done up to now is 50% take.

 

[Finman]

.
I think that they are going to make emergency cells into combs. And surely they have started already.
.

 

[birdsandbees]

I had the same, started of beautifully with many bees festooning the grafts after 24 hours, moved to finisher and the took them all down! in both cases hives rammed with bees and emerging bees and checked for any cups present when transferring.
second attempt underway in a different Q- colony and this time I'm not bothering to move to a finisher so fingers crossed.

 

[Noddy]

I've had a think about this, and strongly suspect the larvae may have dried out - it was bloody hot in my shed, and I was rushing as I'd been given a bollocking for spending too much time on 'bee stuff' when we have our grandchildren staying with us, and I never used a damp cloth to protect the larvae.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

I've had a think about this, and strongly suspect the larvae may have dried out - it was bloody hot in my shed.............

Larvae are very easily damaged by heat, small larvae especially. Eggs, older larvae and sealed brood are tougher. It has happened to many of us at some time and tea towels dipped in a barrel of rainwater have their uses.

 

[Poly Hive]

What was the weather like?

PH

 

[madasafish]

I had the same : all but one rejected when I looked yesterday. V hot and sunny when I did the transfer (Nicot) outside. Inside garage next time.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Heat and drying out can be a problem, do all the grafting last thing in the evening here, just as it's getting dark... and always wet graft, which helps to avoid any drying out problems.

 

[SDM]

I had the same, started of beautifully with many bees festooning the grafts after 24 hours, moved to finisher and the took them all down! in both cases hives rammed with bees and emerging bees and checked for any cups present when transferring.
second attempt underway in a different Q- colony and this time I'm not bothering to move to a finisher so fingers crossed.

Same with my last batch. 17 out of 20 after 24 hrs. Moved them to the finisher and they tore down all but 3.
I wonder if 2 days of thunder storms could affect take?

 

[sean-a]

Same with my last batch. 17 out of 20 after 24 hrs. Moved them to the finisher and they tore down all but 3.
I wonder if 2 days of thunder storms could affect take?

I tried earlier this month and total failure 0 from 19

 

[Quis Custodiet]

......................
I wonder if 2 days of thunder storms could affect take?

Cannot give a definitive answer, but it seems likely that it does judging from from what I have noticed and what has been related to me. Prolonged thunder storms, periods of dearth and periods of cold / wet weather are possibly all broadly similar in having negative impacts on bees. This may be of interest to some, horses repeatedly galloping in the vicinity of hives can definitely put an end to rearing grafts.

 

[Noddy]

Glad it's not just me then lol

Weather is poor until Friday, so I'll run another graft then, plus I'll stick the Nicot cage into a hive.

 

[SDM]

Cannot give a definitive answer,
Prolonged thunder storms, periods of dearth and periods of cold / wet weather are possibly all broadly similar in having negative impacts on bees. .

That's definitive enough for me. Nectar flow had dried up a few days before , though the cell raiser was being fed honey and water 1 to 1 by weight. Then nearly 48hrs of near constant thunder.
The rain was badly needed mind you, hoping for a bit more in the next day or so. Only 2 days with rain in May here. Doesn't bode well for the Heather season.

 

[Poly Hive]

If the weather is thunder then in my experience the take is zero and we get much less thundery weather than down south in an intensity way. As in your weather is far more "heavy" than what we get up here.

So if mild heaviness buggers me up then I dinna see much hope down your way until the weather changes.

PH

 

[Etton]

I had the same, started of beautifully with many bees festooning the grafts after 24 hours, moved to finisher and the took them all down! in both cases hives rammed with bees and emerging bees and checked for any cups present when transferring.
second attempt underway in a different Q- colony and this time I'm not bothering to move to a finisher so fingers crossed.

Sorry to be thick, but whats a finisher. Presume you put the grafted eggs into a Q- hive so why not leave them there?

 

[B+.]

Sorry to be thick, but whats a finisher. Presume you put the grafted eggs into a Q- hive so why not leave them there?

I do.
However, started cells can be transferred after 24 hours above a queen excluder between frames of open brood. The argument is that the nurse bees will continue to feed the larvae until sealed (finished).
I question whether they get enough of the right diet in starter-finishers, so, I use the same queenless colony until the cells are sealed and the colony can do no more for them, except keep them warm. At that point, I transfer them to an incubator inside Nicot cages (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3727).

 

[Noddy]

<snip> I use the same queenless colony until the cells are sealed and the colony can do no more for them, except keep them warm. At that point, I transfer them to an incubator inside Nicot cages (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3727).

That is what I do your Honour

 

[B+.]

That is what I do your Honour