Langstroth or national.

[Chris southerington]

Hi, I'm a newbie to beekeeping and looking to buy my first nuc and queen for my hive. I was under the impression that my hive was a Langstroth hive but on measuring my brood box foundation frames which are 16"x10" Im a bit confused. From what I've read these are National frames or am I wrong. There's 11 frames and a dummy board in the box. My supers frames measure at 14" x 5 1/2" and have 9 frames in the box. Just want to order the right nuc for my hive. I believe that some hive parts can be inter changed. I will post some pics . Any advice is welcome. Cheers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They are commercial frames. shorter lugs and deeper frames than a national which are 17x8½"

 

[Angry_Mob]

You have a commercial hive which is the same external dimensions as a national but the frames and box are different - note the lugs.

Your super looks to be national though.

You could buy a national nuc and the frames will fit into the commercial hive however there will be gaps. It might be worth looking at a national brood box in the sales to keep things easy.

 

[Chris southerington]

You have a commercial hive which is the same external dimensions as a national but the frames and box are different - note the lugs.

Your super looks to be national though.

You could buy a national nuc and the frames will fit into the commercial hive however there will be gaps. It might be worth looking at a national brood box in the sales to keep things easy.

Thanks for the advice, will talk to the Bee supplier tomorrow. Cheers.

 

[Chris southerington]

They are commercial frames. shorter lugs and deeper frames than a national which are 17x8½"

 

[Chris southerington]

Can I get a nuc that will fit this box .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can I get a nuc that will fit this box .

You may, depending who you get it from.

 

[pargyle]

Can I get a nuc that will fit this box .

It;s not the end of the world if you can't, there are ways of using national frames in the commercial hive until they draw out your commercial frames. Are you a member of Southampton beekeepers ... ? There are a few small scale beefarmers in Southern Hampshire who run commercials and you may find someone who could supply a made up nuc on commercial frames.

You will find that commercial kit is generally more expensive that national formats .. I'd be inclined to change to standard national or 14 x 12 whilst you have the chance as it's a more readily available format. Although ... if I was starting again I would seriously consder Langstroths ... too late now as I'm well set up with 14 x 12 kit.

 

[Chris southerington]

It;s not the end of the world if you can't, there are ways of using national frames in the commercial hive until they draw out your commercial frames. Are you a member of Southampton beekeepers ... ? There are a few small scale beefarmers in Southern Hampshire who run commercials and you may find someone who could supply a made up nuc on commercial frames.

You will find that commercial kit is generally more expensive that national formats .. I'd be inclined to change to standard national or 14 x 12 whilst you have the chance as it's a more readily available format. Although ... if I was starting again I would seriously consder Langstroths ... too late now as I'm well set up with 14 x 12 kit.

Think I will go for the standard national brood box and keep it simple. Cheers.

 

[pargyle]

Think I will go for the standard national brood box and keep it simple. Cheers.

If you go with standard nationals you will probably end up with double brood ... if you are going this route then you will need to take account of the extra boxes and frames you will need. You wlll also need spare kit in order to accommodate any swarming - you might get lucky in the first year but ... if they are looking like they are going to swarm you need to do something about it ... and that means extra kit.

 

[WoodenBeam]

Nothing wrong with commercials at all, use the brood box & everything else is national.

 

[Mabee]

Commercial brood boxes can be used with nationals as the outer dimensions are the same and give the bees more room in the brood box. It would be worth considering keeping the set up as you have it. All the supers can be nationals making it easier for extraction. That’s how mine are set up.

 

[WoodenBeam]

Chris, as already said nothing wrong with commercials at all but looking at your photos a little closer, check the top/bottom bee space. Your commercial (home made?) brood box appears to be top bee space whereas the national supers look like bottom bee space. This could be resolved (if correct) with a bit of alteration to a queen excluder but not ideal - far better to have a single standard throughout.
This possible issue will result in brace comb being built between brood & supers hindering inspections.
May also be worth removing castellations in the supers until the super frames are drawn but this is only a thought from someone who doesn’t use, I await to be corrected.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's a good spot. The brood box is top space and maybe even a little more and the supers bottom space. I can't see castellations but there are those awful plastic spacers

 

[Chris southerington]

If you go with standard nationals you will probably end up with double brood ... if you are going this route then you will need to take account of the extra boxes and frames you will need. You wlll also need spare kit in order to accommodate any swarming - you might get lucky in the first year but ... if they are looking like they are going to swarm you need to do something about it ... and that means extra kit.

Just talked to my bee supplier and they provide nucs for this size box so will stay with this set up for now. Cheers

 

[Chris southerington]

Commercial brood boxes can be used with nationals as the outer dimensions are the same and give the bees more room in the brood box. It would be worth considering keeping the set up as you have it. All the supers can be nationals making it easier for extraction. That’s how mine are set up.

My bee supplier provides nucs at this size so will stay with this set up. Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My bee supplier provides nucs at this size so will stay with this set up. Thanks

You still need to address the top/bottom beespace issue. One thing that will help is to avoid framed Queen excluders as that will further exacerbate the issue - just use the stamped galvanised ones, nadiring the shallows could be a real PITA though.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You can use a QX with a bee space on both sides

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You can use a QX with a bee space on both sides

That will give you even more extra space

 

[Arfermo]

That will give you even more extra space

For brace combing that you don't want.