Langstroth advice

[BrianO]

Hi All

Hope you Guys had a Good Christmas

Couple questions, have for last few years been running standard National hives.
Currently overwintering 18 no.

In March am going at this on a full time basis . Know about the financials , have positioned myself whereby I can do this and not have to rely on it solely for income . Not gonna be rich but that does not concern me.

That's the background, the questions

Want to switch to Langstroth standards , sick of messing about with Brood and a half or Double Brood, like the extra space it will give me in the Brood box.

Bought a couple of Swienty Langs Poly ( will be going all Poly, as my current Nationals ).

Will be looking to buy flat packed in a Quantity of about 75 , do not have to be Swienty. Anyone know of Good suppliers ?

Any other Advice re Langstroth Poly's ?

Want to get as much info as possible before deciding finally

Thanks

Brian

 

[Dared]

Hi,

Have a look at Paradise Honey poly hives as look very strong. Considering them myself
http://paradisehoney.net/en/ also have a UK distributer [email protected].

I've no connection with them but just looking for a good strong polyhive myself.

 

[Finman]

.
Look carefully the prices of frames too. They seems to be more ecpencive than boxes.

Compare prices to Finnish Honey Paw and Hunajayhtymä selling.

.

 

[Chris B]

Hi Brian,

Swienty are a good option for the volumes you are talking about, but personally I would not buy flat packed - I didn't even know Swienty did that actually. Assembling 75 hives including supers is a big job and I doubt would save much money if at all. I chose the Swienty Langstroths years ago to avoid the assembly.
I buy frames from Carl Fritz, ready assembled and wired, for both brood and super. Then use a battery charger to heat wire and melt foundation on. Swienty do the best foundation for this that I've found, but it works with any unwired foundation. Again, the additional cost is small compared to the time saving.
If you join the BFA you will also benefit from a Swienty discount of some sort.

A couple of years ago I also checked out the hives from Modern Beekeeping (made by Paradise of Finland). Nice hives but not easily compatible with the Swienty ones I already had. But when I checked directly with Paradise they told me they also had a poly Langstroth without the ledge moulding, and compatible with the Swientys. I never pursued this but this might also be a good option for a bulk order. From memory I think the price was slightly better than Swienty but I never compared shipping costs.

How are you planning to populate 75 hives?

 

[Quis Custodiet]

We are gradually replacing our wooden commercials with poly langstroths. Honey Paw in Finland is the manufacturer we choose. I was unaware that Paradise Honey produced a square edged box, that is certainly worth investigating. I have never seen it mentioned in their catalogue, perhaps it's available only on special order.
You are aware that poly langstroth supers are deeper than wooden ones.
Mr Finman, can you provide any elaboration on these Paradise boxes please?

 

[Finman]

Mr Finman, can you provide any elaboration on these Paradise boxes please?

I know quite well the owner (at least he knows me) and I am very early customer in their company.

I have seen their business rise in beekeeping.

Their depot is only 10 km away from motorway via which I go to my summer cottage.

I do not know what you want to know out there as experienced beekeepers.

That I know that to wire frames and put foundations into them is the biggest job when you assemble new hives. To put box parts together is not a big job. Painting them in piles with spray painter is next step.
.
Our beekeeping companies use Estonian companies in these ready to use services.
.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Thanks for reply. I was asking if you could confirm whether or not Paradise honey make a square edged box. Chris B has been told they do, but it is not in their catalogue.

 

[Finman]

Thanks for reply. I was asking if you could confirm whether or not Paradise honey make a square edged box. Chris B has been told they do, but it is not in their catalogue.

I have bought only them. They are compatible with old furniture. I phone there.
.

.

 

[Bee Bumble]

ModBee told me about three years ago that PH were going to stop production of their boxes without the lip.

We use Swienty (one piece moulding), but apart from Paradise Honey (with the lip) there is also Honey Paw (no lip) from Finland. http://www.mesi.fi/en/products/polystyrene-hives/ ModBee have been saying they will stock them 'soon' for a year now.
They are flat packed (need assembly) and have the same bee space as a wooden Langstroth, and have a fixed hard plastic frame rest. Their roof is thicker and better than those from Swienty or Paradise and they have a choice of three floors: solid, mesh or combined which can accommodate a pollen trap if desired. They also produce a pair of 4 frame nucs to fit either their own floor and roof or on the full-sized hive floor / roof for over-wintering together.
Finally, there is Lyson from Poland which are made of a denser, more durable poly with hard plastic tops to the boxes so hive tools do not damage them. Their boxes are clipped together.
https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/polystyrene-hives/polystyrene-langstroth-hive-2/

 

[Into the lions den]

ModBee told me about three years ago that PH were going to stop production of their boxes without the lip.

Problem is that's what has the major market share....the lipped ones are a way to fix you on to their product only.

Apparently they do still make flush edged boxes but for commercial reasons do not promote them. I inquired about a piece of machinery from them a few weeks ago and in the stuff they sent to me the flush edged boxes are still mentioned.

You have to be very careful with some of these makes btw, as they do not all use the same distribution of bee space. Finman talked about Honeypaw....that is worth a look too.

4 piece ones are still available btw, easy to put together, and its not even necessary to glue them, but the box is a little stronger if you do.....none of our original 4 piece ones are glued btw, and very few have 'sprung' at all in the 17 years since they went into service. we DO prefer the one piece option however.

Its a long time ago now but Paradise did offer me the best price for poly, however the boxes were not completely compatible with my existing ones and to get that price it was an eye watering number even for me that had to be ordered.

added later...

the Lyson ones do indeed seem harder and thus it seems reasonable to deduce they would be tougher, but this is not the case. This is cast material and is of course denser, but against that it is more brittle. Its swings and roundabouts. Under 100g/ litre you can get bee chewing, and under 80g/litre its for sure. 100 to 140g/litre and the gear is good and tough, but above that it can get brittle...especially in 'cast' rather than 'moulded' the conventional way (don't ask me for a technical explanation of the difference in the process). Against that the lower the density the better the insulation.

Be cautious at the outset, and think ahead. What will you envisage yourself doing or needing in 5 and 10 years time? Make a decision that is unlikely to lead to you having to change direction and get rid of non compatible gear.

 

[Finman]

Problem is that's what has the major market share....the lipped ones are a way to fix you on to their product only.

r.

Yes but, non lipped has been used 30 years. And they are still in usage. What idea is to abandon most of old customers. Somebody will serve them. That is sure.

As you see in Britain, you have there lots of poly product names, and competition will bite sooner or later.

.

 

[Finman]

.
Here you are.

Paradise box without lids

http://www.lahtisenvahavalimo.fi/mehilaishoito/pesaosasto-honey-kevytpesa.html

American Medium without lids
http://www.lahtisenvahavalimo.fi/mehilaishoito/pesaosasto-honey-farrar.html
.

 

[Finman]

Honey Paw boxes without lids

 

[foghornleghorn]

Bought 50 honeypaw boxes with frames last year, worked out at about €18-20 a box delivered. Their frames are a bit thinner than swienty and icko ones but seem solid enough.

 

[BrianO]

Really good replies, Thank You Very Much.

Have to say do like the Swienty gear, would err towards it if I could nail a good deal. Poly is denser than the Paynes and Maismore Polys ( former frame runners brittle Poly edge when removing propolised frames during inspection prone to cracking, and latter especially with a Nucs prone at times to Bee Chew at entrances , whilst full hives have those annoying locator protrusions ).

Going to price with Swienty and Honey Paws, though prefer the shallow super option Swienty offer.

Chris, good question and to give an answer , will fill as I have expanded to date,through colony division after the end of the flow, queen rearing and supplementing with swarm catching which I love, and has served me well to date. Will build up gradually , as has been the modus operandi over the last few years as I learn more and more. Will also join the BFA , did discuss with them at Tradex last year.

Thanks again . All great informative replies

 

[tidymeup]

Putting boxes together is a big task. This year I have at lease 200 to assemble however mine are timber. I love poly but finances just won't allow me to buy poly. I bought the boxes but make the floor and roof.

These is also 2000 frames to make as well. If you can afford to make it easy do so I think.

 

[BrianO]

An old Chestnut but wondering if any up to date reviews of the 3 Langstroth options.
Honeypaws, Swienty and Paradise ? Thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

If brood box size is your only complaint, why not simply add ekes and go to 14 x 12? Your choice to go the Langstroth route, of course. They are the most popular in the world, after all.

Do remember that larger supers may mean harder work lifting and more part-filled frames, but fewer frames to deal with may be a plus.

 

[madasafish]

Do remember that larger supers may mean harder work lifting and more part-filled frames, but fewer frames to deal with may be a plus.

That's why when I went Langs, I chose shallow supers - better to handle and easier to fill...

 

[Poly Hive]

There is nothing stopping a person from making floors and roofs out of wood for poly broods. Workes some like that for years and they did just as well as the full poly ones. I had 2" of dense insulation in the roofs.

Phone Josephine at Swienty and discuss, her English is perfect and she knows her stuff.

PH