lack of honey......in supers

[beecology]

Hello beeks,

Just a quick query about honey crop and the lack of it.

1 colony has built up from a split in may, had super on for a week and no comb being drawn on new foundation (sprayed with sugar syrup to entice them up).

The other colony was united 8 days ago and super on today.

However, during the inspection, both brood boxes are full of bees brood and stores, the latter in the form of several thick frames of honey, some of which is capped. There seems little space in either brood box for the queens to lay up in and a big part of this space is taken up by honey stores.

I've taken both QE off to encourage them upstairs but slightly curious as to why they would store so much in the brood boxes?

If and when the new foundation gets drawn up, will they move this honey up into the supers, thus opening space in the brood boxes to lay up in?

Anyone got a similar scenario?

Thanks in advance

 

[Finman]

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Give the foundation box to that another hive and quickly.

 

[beecology]

.
Give the foundation box to that another hive and quickly.

Don't quite understand finman, sorry? I've given both hives new foundation in supers.

 

[badger65]

I took the QX of mine today an put a drawn frame in. Now they re all over the super.

 

[beecology]

I took the QX of mine today an put a drawn frame in. Now they re all over the super.

I would have done the same but no drawn frames available (1st year). They have insulation and so I'm hoping now the QE's have been removed, they start drawing out comb and quickly

 

[REDWOOD]

The reason for lots of honey in the BB is that when there was no brood your bees utilised that area to put stores, if it's capped honey then bruise and hopefully the bees will move it up. What QE do you have, is it on the right way? if all this fails the remove stores and give them empty comb or foundation

 

[oliver90owner]

Thread 24. Looks to me like you have two previous threads in a simlar vein.


If you owned a factory would you pay for extra factory storage space if you knew you didn't need it? Bees are seemingly more clever than some factory owners, if that were the case.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Don't quite understand finman, sorry? I've given both hives new foundation in supers.

Swap a couple of frames of brood box stores with foundation. You can give the stores back when winter comes along.

 

[Teemore]

If and when the new foundation gets drawn up, will they move this honey up into the supers, thus opening space in the brood boxes to lay up in?

Possibly. As noted above, you could bruise these stores in an effort to get the bees to move them. That will be done at a cost in honey/stores. If the stores in your BB are capped, you could follow John Gilberdyke's suggestion.

When a nectar flow starts and the bees are bringing in a surplus of nectar, they need space to store it and if they do not have drawn comb in supers in which to store that surplus, they stick it in the first available vacant comb, normally in the brood box. This is always going to be something for new beekeepers to deal with until they have a stock of drawn combs available. This is something that is normally highlighted to new and beginning beekeepers. You are heading in the right direction by trying to encourage the bees into the super.

 

[Finman]

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If you have capped Super, it is better to extract before it crystallises. Then you get drawn combs to be reused.

It is not great idea to store capped honey for winter food. It is still June.

.

 

[Ely]

Without a doubt the bees will use a super when they need the space. You do not need to encourage them. I remember in my first year thinking I had a large colony when in reality I had never seen a truly large colony to compare it to. When they are ready they will move stores to the super when they need more laying space.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

 

[itma]

Without a doubt the bees will use a super when they need the space. You do not need to encourage them. …

Sorry, but I disagree!

It takes bees a while to draw comb. They aren't good at planning ahead (that's what beekeepers have to do for them).
Consequently, bees can often be 'caught out' by a big nectar flow - and fill all their available comb with evaporating nectar, queen cuts back laying, and next thing you have swarm QCs all over the place. "Backfilling" emerged brood cells with nectar in mid season (rather than Autumn), especially in the middle of the brood nest, is a bad sign.

Two problems for the beginning keeper are a lack of drawn comb to throw at them, and new equipment. New a problem? Yes, bees prefer bee-used. A new super box with new frames fitted with foundation isn't particularly attractive to the bees, and consequently they can be extremely reluctant to "go up".

There are lots of tricks to help overcome the problem - like getting some shallows part-drawn in the brood box, and putting new boxes with new frames under the brood for a couple of weeks before they are needed above. Underneath, even if they are only used as a passageway, they lose their newness and get to smell like part of the colony.
However, the necessity is to think ahead - the bees can't, so you have to do it for them!

 

[oliver90owner]

Bees are not stupid. They draw comb ehen required. They are more clever than the average beekeeper (on this forun).

 

[Ely]

In my experience, the only time the bees were reluctant to draw out foundation was when I put the super on too early. Every other time they were straight on it. Being fairly new to the hobby these were new boxes, new frames

 

[Finman]

Itma, when a swarm make a hive into tree cavity, no one is telling what to do.
However colony makes as much combs as it needs.

I have not met a colony which does not make enough combs.

Ely is right...

In that situation when bees are not able occupy the super, I put it under the brood box and bees go down when colony needs to expand..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It takes bees a while to draw comb. They aren't good at planning ahead (that's what beekeepers have to do for them).

So who planned ahead for them before we came on the scene, by that rationale bees would have swarmeed themselves to starvation (and extinction) millenia ago.
I have never seen this problem with bees 'refusing' to go into the super - they will go when they are ready, not before ran out of drawn foundation last year and two new colonies had to make do with foundation. Didn't fass ass around for ages with mucking about in the brood box or nadiring first - they were in there when they needed it.
Sounds a bit like the obsession with the 'spring clean' more for the beekeeper rather than the bees.

 

[YorkshireBees]

Sorry, but I disagree!

It takes bees a while to draw comb. They aren't good at planning ahead (that's what beekeepers have to do for them).
Consequently, bees can often be 'caught out' by a big nectar flow - and fill all their available comb with evaporating nectar, queen cuts back laying, and next thing you have swarm QCs all over the place. "Backfilling" emerged brood cells with nectar in mid season (rather than Autumn), especially in the middle of the brood nest, is a bad sign.
...

However, the necessity is to think ahead - the bees can't, so you have to do it for them!

Well I would disagree with your statement.

The biggest influences on bees using supers are

1.Number of bees - A strong colony can and will draw comb at an amazing rate when required.

2.Nectar flow - Although it may seem that a strong flow can catch a colony out, in the famous words of a Finnish F1 driver "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing!" The bees, given the space, will draw the comb and fill it at the required rate in comparison to the income of nectar. A good strong nectar flow is required for bees to feel the need to draw comb.

Although temperature is of course important, lets face the fact that there will not be a good Nectar flow if it's not warm enough anyway.

Today I have checked a hive that has 4 supers on it at the moment. This year I decided to bottom super and was amazed to find the top 95% full and being capped the 2nd down is approx 80% full and the bottom 2 supers have less. It seems to me the bees are using the brood box and first 2 supers to process the Nectar and only moving it up when it is honey.

As Rab and others have said, Bees know what they are doing!

 

[Finman]

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Honeybee is a wild animal. Beekeeping skills means that you learn what are the bees' natural instincts to do things.

To a beginner comb building is not the most important thing. It is seldom said that it is brooding and colony growth. (and don't say excluder).

And to draw combs fast for what? Who needs them if not the colony.

I have reared every summer 20-30 mating nucs to get new queens. Nucs have first 10 days one frame of bees and when the queen starts to lay, I add bees for 3 frames. They are in polyboxes and they are warm. Entrance is 2x2 cm, and no mesh floor.

These nucs will not become winterers because a start is too small. Even if they survive over winter, their build up in spring is mere pain.

Why they do not build up in late summer?...Towards autumn nucs have lack of pollen because they have not pollen frames stored in middsummer. They must stop earlier and often they eate their larva.

A beginner is in trouples if he gets 2 frame nuc to learn new things.

.

 

[biggles]

Bees are not stupid. They draw comb when required. They are more clever than the average beekeeper (on this forum).

That's the best/truest comment I've seen on here.