Label suppliers -

[pargyle]

So if unclarified raw honey breeds swelling and rumbling (grollynge) in the belly, is that supposed to be a selling point?!

raw
I think we can safely say that raw honey in 1398 was probably a lot less safe than raw honey in 2021 ... not had any complaints ablout Grollynge from peope eating my raw honety ...

 

[North End Bees]

raw
I think we can safely say that honey in 1398 was probably a lot less safe than raw honey in 2021 ... not had any complaints ablout Grollynge from peope eating my raw honety ...

Can we really say that honey in 1398 was a lot less safe than raw honey today?
Taking a comb straight from a wild nest sounds safer than some of the chemicals added to hives in the 21stC.

 

[pargyle]

Can we really say that honey in 1398 was a lot less safe than raw honey today?
Taking a comb straight from a wild nest sounds safer than some of the chemicals added to hives in the 21stC.

I think if we were transported back to the 14th century the germs that were about then and which they lived alongside would probably kill us .. as a human race we've evolved but our natural immunity has reduced because we are no longer exposed on a daily basis to the pathogens of uncleanliness.

In the 14th century personal hygiene was almost non-existent - the reason raw honey gave them gastric problems was no doubt down to it being harvested in unsanitary conditions - possibly including honey that was uncapped and with the potential for fermentation or the development of pathogens. What was probably as safe in the comb (if not safer) than our present bees produce - would not be the minute they started harvesting and storing it.

Mead, of course, was a staple drink and would be safe as the alcohol would generally kill any pathogens ...

They drank beer and porter as water was so unclean it caused all sorts of gastric problems and worse ..

 

[North End Bees]

Humans haven't evolved since 1398 (nor since the preceding millennia)!

Immunity in the 21st C is low for numerous reasons, none to do with evolution. E.g increasing sterility of surroundings, bombardment with modern chemicals, etc. etc.

But a 14th C person would be equally susceptible to the same bacteria as we now are. If you go back in time, don't forget your antibiotics and you'll be as well protected as here and now.

And the 14th C person didn't have MRSA to deal with. Luckily for us, MRSA-infected wounds have been proven in trials to respond to topical honey!

Humans have eaten honey for millennia. Early humans learnt to avoid foods which caused them illness. If they hadn't, humans wouldn't be here today to ponder on it.

 

[Amari]

I think if we were transported back to the 14th century the germs that were about then and which they lived alongside would probably kill us .. as a human race we've evolved but our natural immunity has reduced because we are no longer exposed on a daily basis to the pathogens of uncleanliness.

Yes. Take a simple example: our cat drinks from puddles and from our pond (faeces of the fish etc), but rarely from his lovingly-provided water bowl.

 

[pargyle]

Yes. Take a simple example: our cat drinks from puddles and from our pond (faeces of the fish etc), but rarely from his lovingly-provided water bowl.

I think animals prefer the soft water you get in puddles to the chlorinated, fluorided stuff that comes out of the tap ...

 

[North End Bees]

For my dog, it seems the dirtier the water the better. The bees seem to be following suit!

 

[pargyle]

For my dog, it seems the dirtier the water the better. The bees seem to be following suit!

I think the bees are looking for minerals that they find in dirty water ... mine tend to go mainly to my wildlife pond which is rainwater but I see them on the plantpots when the compost is damp and any puddles on the path ... I know they like cow pats and puddles of urine as well ...

 

[North End Bees]

True. My home bees usually get their water from nextdoor's pond. And at the out apiary I've often seen them on the manure pile in the neighbouring field.

 

[Repwoc]

So if unclarified raw honey breeds swelling and rumbling (grollynge) in the belly, is that supposed to be a selling point?!

I think you have misunderstood. "bredeþ" doesn't mean breed, but remove, ie raw honey was a treatment for those ailments.

https://bosworthtoller.com/97

 

[North End Bees]

I think you have misunderstood. "bredeþ" doesn't mean breed, but remove, ie raw honey was a treatment for those ailments.

https://bosworthtoller.com/97

Ah thanks, now that makes more sense!

Although the Anglo Saxon word 'bredan' does mean to breed, and the -eþ ending is equivalent to modern s, which caused the confusion. Too many similar words!

 

[polymath]

I get asked if my honey is raw all the time....
I think some of us have quite a blinkered vision of our honey. We know all about it but many of our potential customers haven't a clue but that's not stupidity.
I don't have it on my label but I might add it.

Raw is not a defined term to use with honey. Trading standards, may, take issue with it. Raw is defined by DEFRA as uncooked. As Honey cannot be cooked - it can be pasteurized - their is an argument to say that it cannot be described as raw. Trading Standards in each area make their own decisions these days on what to take action on. I do have a letter from my local trading standards in Surrey confirm that the word Pure and Natural are acceptable - see attached letter.

 

[Repwoc]

Raw is not a defined term to use with honey. Trading standards, may, take issue with it.

There is a list of reserved words that may be used only with specific types of honey - chunk, soft set and so on. They do not form a definitive list of words that can be used to describe honey.

I do have a letter from my local trading standards in Surrey confirm that the word Pure and Natural are acceptable

Pure and Natural are not "defined terms" to use with honey either, ie they are not on the reserved word list. QED.

 

[Swarm]

There is a list of reserved words that may be used only with specific types of honey - chunk, soft set and so on. They do not form a definitive list of words that can be used to describe honey.

Pure and Natural are not "defined terms" to use with honey either, ie they are not on the reserved word list. QED.

Yes, here we go again?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, here we go again?

Yes. Daft isn’t it
This has been done to death so many times I think I know polymath’s observations inside out

 

[Repwoc]

Yes, here we go again?

I know. I try to stop myself but ... must try harder.

 

[polymath]

The law also says that if anything is added to honey it cannot be called honey. But we often see labels stating, Honey with Royal Jelly, Honey with Nuts etc. Legally as something has been added to the honey it cannot be called honey.

 

[Murox]

The law also says that if anything is added to honey it cannot be called honey. But we often see labels stating, Honey with Royal Jelly, Honey with Nuts etc. Legally as something has been added to the honey it cannot be called honey.

Ah but you have ignored Hancocks' canon - rules are for the masses.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ah but you have ignored Hancocks' canon

Rumour from Ms Colangelo is that it's more like a .22 pistol

 

[sean-a]

because we are no longer exposed on a daily basis to the pathogens of uncleanliness.

Hmmmm........
Having seen my daughters bedroom floor recently, I am not convinced at the veracity of that statement!