Just some observations on questions asked.

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BILL.HEARD

House Bee
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
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Location
TEIGNMOUTH
Hive Type
Commercial
I have been a member of this forum since February this year. I have been keeping bees for nearly 50 years and have just come back to it after an absence of some 8 years.

I have aways keep bees on single or double brood chambered commercials, and just wanted to make a few observations on how things appear to have changed over the last few years and the sort of questions on the forum.
I note that a number of new beekeepers use a lot more in the way of pollen substitutes and fondant as well as starting to feed very early in the year.
Ten years ago when I had a number of colony's we fed in the autumn to ensure each hive had some 45/50 lbs of stores, we checked the weight of each hive when giving clean floors in the spring but would rarely have to give syrup until April earliest, we never gave the bees fondant or pollen substitutes. My view is that to much early feeding is leading to early swarming and large populations at the wrong time. It could prove very expensive if the current weather turns cold and wet over the next few weeks, large colonies could soon go through any new honey collected and then be on the verge of starvation.

Some of the new beekeepers seem to want to make increase much to early and without a sufficient viable drone population and trying to raise queens from what seem like very small stocks.
I would build up a suitable colony with a double brood chamber and wait until there are some 15/18 frames of brood, this you can do something with and make some decent nucs and raise some queens. I made some 40 nucs using this method once each with three combs and a ripe queen cell from a selected stock. They all came through that winter and made some fine stocks the following summer, not one swarmed.

I see some new beekeepers are still using a brood and a half, this system I found is so messy, brood should be kept in brood chambers not in supers.

These are just my view on things and I don't wish to offend anyone, my bedside reading was 'Bee Farming' by Manley and books by Ted Hooper and Brother Adam.
 
Excellent advice that, Bill.

No point in having a monster colony in spring that swarms at the first whiff of nectar.
 
Very interesting. A while back someone posted notes from a commercial operation that mentioned they were using double (or even triple) brood to delay swarming and build up a really large colony. This delayed swarming until June, and they made a big stack of nucs when they broke the colony up. I am going to try this on one of mine next year - but I am not a commercial bee keeper, and I'm not sure what I would do with 40 nucs, or where I would put them!
 
sounds really interesting. does anyone know if the beefarming book is still available or available as a downloadable book?
 
Interesting observations Bill I agree with the over feeding. Although round my way the bees apart from bad weather will have nectar to forage on in April.

Not only can it stimulate brood laying and large colonies if excessive can block the brood nest and cause even more problems.

Another observation you may pick up on in time is that it seems although I am not vastly experienced but from others it is clear that the Queens dont seem to last as long as they used to do.
 
Bill,

Nice to see you haven't forgotten too much since last keeping bees.

A few things have changed a bit.

Weather patterns, times of blooming for strains of OSR maybe, per egs.

I agree, using shallows as a brood box is 'messy', but sometimes 'transient' (a few weeks in spring), so although I agree to a point, not all of us keep them on a brood and a half all year as some do. The 14 x 12 is much more popular but some of mine need more space at times.

Re feeding in winter - there are a lot of new beeks out there molly-codling their bees all through the winter (likely the autumn preparation was a bit dodgy) because they only have the one colony, or maybe two. I agree, it can often lead to a congested brood box in the spring.

Clean floors in the spring? Not so much of a 'religion' these days as many more have utilised OMFs. Spring clean is still needed but not quite so labour intensive.

Increase too early? I keep bleating that those early queens may risk not getting mated simply because of the weather. May be OK, and they get away with it but that is one of the underlying reasons why so many queens are imported early in the season (queen-breedeers start later) but few take note it seems. Hey ho, never mind.

An awful lot can be put down to lack of experience - as in beekeeping for several years. When the current 'baby-boom' in new beeks peaks and subsides things will settle down after a few seasons, I am sure. They will either pack up, learn to be a little more conservative, or the weather patterns will allow them to get away with much more than you could, safely, when you last kept bees.

Regards, RAB
 
Sound observation Bill.

I do agree with o90o's point on being ready for target forage though. I have OSR all of 6mtr from my hives. I like the honey and it can represent a significant part of my harvest (and hence income to off-set costs). The girls need to be ready to take advantage of it - even if I have to monitor stores before my next big forage crop comes in (which for me is field beans this year).
 
Rosti,

Field beans adjacent to some of my colonies on OSR has been in flower sometime already. Less than a foot tall, some of it. Farmer was doing a rain dance, but not worked yet! Probably another week or more on the OSR yet.

I put them there for that very reason - of two consecutive flows - but if it fails to rain shortly, another 'best laid plan' will come to nothing.

Regards, RAB
 
Nothing new about feeding "fondant" for that read candy. Nothing new really about stimulating the colonies for spring, that came in with OSR.

Apart from that all newbies are overly ambitious, it goes with the status. Unrealistic expectations.

I well remember my wild plans in my early years, and the way that oddly they bees thwarted them systemically until I learned the one true secret that time bestows the knowledge of.

You can only succeed by working with the bees.

PH
 
Bill,

Increase too early? I keep bleating that those early queens may risk not getting mated simply because of the weather. May be OK, and they get away with it but that is one of the underlying reasons why so many queens are imported early in the season (queen-breedeers start later) but few take note it seems. Hey ho, never mind.

Keep bleating! I got caught out with a very forward 14x12 colony that became very overcrowded and produced queens right at the beginning of April. I headed off a swarm by doing a couple of splits. Of the two new queens, one did well and is now laying good brood in the nuc; the other is laying almost all drones and needs replacing ASAP, or the colony combining.

Conditions do seem to be less predictable than when I started beekeeping (I kept bees about 20 years ago, but then didn't, and got some last year after a long gap). I wouldn't have expected such an early start, but on reflection I should have guessed, given the weather conditions, and checked more thoroughly earlier in March. Paying attention to "past experience" can be a hindrance as well as a help...
 
Those observations from a returnee to beekeeping were very welocme (though I feel slightly guilty about that in the sense that they are welcome because they are in tune with my gut feelings and those feelings may not necessarily be right). I have a healthy burgeoning colony - they were a good sized nuc late last july and burst through the winter having not seemed to take that much of their winter stores. I also have a week old swarm courtesy of my local swarm officer at HWBKA. I have given that swarm a small amount of feed - but I seem to remember that I was previously told either feed them all or feed none to avoid robbing. And swarming is the natural way for bees so it seems a little at odds to feed too much especially when there is plenty of forage. The main thing missing is of course rain.
My instincts tell me that my original bees are struggling for space and as a consequence are basically hot. I am adding supers when appropriate - I think one is probably almost full. Feeding them might stop them using more of their stores that might ease their space problems.
Another peice of advice I was given at an early stage was not to open a hive unless I new why I was doing so and to remember the bees have managed by themselves for many years. As soon as we are adding feed etc we are opening the hive more and more even though it is not as intrusive as a full inspection.
Still, I quite like weighing up all the wonderful advice even if some of it seems to contradict.
Tricia
 
Every single season is unique. What works bonny one years will fail dismally the next.

Experience teaches what will "usually" work which is why I sometimes advise against the grain as over time I have found that some things in a good easy season work well, and during an advers season fail utterly. Would I advise something which may fail? Not if I can help it otherwise all my pain and anguish over failures is set to be repeated. And the point of that is precisely nothing.

Nothing wrong with experimenting but please do not shout "Eureka" after one or even three seasons success. After ten I may listen. LOL

PH
 
I'm trying to learn from the bees. I'm trying to see what they need rather than guessing. I'm trying to keep calm knowing I have other colonies to help out if I make a mistake or if the bees do unexpected things.
I realise now that an inspection does not need to be a full inspection every time.
 
Looks like good advice to me, thankyou Bill.
As a new boy I think I have fallen into some of the ways you mention !
S
 
Every single season is unique. What works bonny one years will fail dismally the next.

PH

So true PH.
I've only been at it around 6 years now and I wouldn't say we've had a "typical" season in all that time.
Most books are useless for that reason, unless you learn to interpret what your bees are telling you.
This is why the forum is so valuable.
 
Gardenbees.

Of the two new queens, one did well and is now laying good brood in the nuc; the other is laying almost all drones and needs replacing ASAP

50% success or 50% failure. It could so easily have been 100% either way. if successful, great; if not and only having the two from splitting early (like some have done, or wanted to do), could have been a severe setback for an inexperienced beek, especially if the weather had not been so helpful and had then caused problems with the over-wintered stock..

As a 'returnee', as you put it, you should at least recognise when a colony is very strong; some have only last year's nucs with which to make a comparison. It seems apparent that quite a lot actually over-estimate colony strength by some considerably bad margin.

Regards, RAB
 
It seems apparent that quite a lot actually over-estimate colony strength by some considerably bad margin.

Absolutely - very easy to do if you're just looking at the number of bees, not the brood (and stages of brood). A broodbox chock full of bustling bees can seem like a stronger prospect than it really is.
 
I think the biggest change you will find in 8 years is that we now treat Varoa differently. You were probably using bayvarol strips but now bees are immune to them, Oh and floors have changed to mesh floors !!!
Welcome back
E
 
Just for info mesh floors started in 1985 in the UK with the intro of poly floors and hives.

PH
 

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