Join me for my first full inspection

[HughMann]

40 days after swarm entered hive, I went deep in today and tried to find the queen.
I think she was on frame 3 now - that's where I see eggs on the vid
frame 4 has an open queen cup
Laugh at all my errors and let me know what you see (I know, I made loads of inaccurate comments!). I think I should have used more smoke maybe.
All comments taken as advise

 

[Speybee]

I am very much a novice hobby bee keeper and I was fascinated by the size of your monster sized hive compared to my standard size National and wbc.
It seems that the frame holder you are using is slowing you down and perhaps consider holding the lugs of your Hoffmans over the nest box, as it would be easier for you to “read” the frames by blowing over the bees to get a clearer view.
Perhaps you might consider standing facing the same direction as your pal (the legs) towards the hive so making it easier to free up the frames to pick up and “read” your frames and complete your inspection more quickly, which would be worth considering if your number of hives increases from 2 hives.
Another aid perhaps to consider would be a manipulation cloth as I felt your bees were getting a bit excitable nearer the end of your inspection.
Maybe my excitable is other folks calm?

 

[fiat500bee]

You're a brave man Hugh, submitting yourself to scrutiny here. . I hadn't realised just how big those deep brood? frames are!!! I would find that frame lifter awkward to use and only used the beekeeping gauntlets the one time in favour of nitrile The impression the experts have given me is maybe you should use less rather than more smoke? I love the conversation at the beginning. More videos please.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Very docile bees hive like that I'd not be using smoke much... Ditch the frame lifter and no point in lifting brood less frames

 

[Curly green finger's]

Thanks for sharing the video.. They looked really calm from the start.

The same as above really I probably wouldn't of used so much smoke, there was no need, you might of had more chance of finding the Queen.

I know this is personal preference but I don't like the j hive tool, I always use a standard hive tool and the frame grabber would of gone out the window.

You will find that unless you wash your leather gloves, they will get covered in bee venom and more than likely get stung on the hands.

Im not saying they aren't handy because you need them, sometimes when you are doing some serious manipulating of the frames and boxes, or your going through a rouge or Q- colony.
But maybe get your self some nitriles or marigolds.

I also thought the inspection went on a bit, if that was a bigger colony there would of been bee's every where.
One more thing rather than smoke or water spray or a bee brush.. I some times use a cockerels feather to move bees of frames.

 

[Murox]

You have lots of room in the brood box and a super with lots of stored syrup, its unlikely they will draw the second super this year - may as well remove it. I didn't notice a queen excluder so your queen could easily have been in the first super. As long as you see eggs and/or very young larvae you don't have to see the Q. She will be easier for you to spot early next spring , she will be bigger and there will be less bees.
I agree with others about the frame lifter, its a personal choice. Good to see how careful and gentle you tried to bee, sudden movements and jerks will get them excited as you noted when you lost grip on a frame. Overall they looked to be pretty calm, if you find the sheer number of bees coming up from between the frames disconcerting take up the idea of using an 'inspection cloth' it will physically keep them down and maybe help a little in maintaining the hive temperature. Good to see that you mostly smoked by wafting it and not blasting it into the hive. Good job all in all.

 

[katbee]

Thanks for being brave enough to share! As a fellow newbie, I'm really interested to read everyone's comments and tips. The frame lifter does look a bit cumbersome and slow, so I'd perhaps get some thinner gloves and lift by the lugs? I've gone through three (!) pairs of latex gloves trying to get the right size, as I have teeny hands and I end up trapping baggy fingertips under the lugs. I'm still not brave enough for nitriles, but I've settled on a tight pair of XXS marigolds to give myself enough dexterity; they make inspecting so much easier!

 

[BugsInABox]

Reading the comments here been very helpful - thanks for sharing. Made me realise I do rather blast the smoke in instead of wafting. Consensus seems to be the gentler approach re smoke is better - why is that?

 

[Speybee]

Thanks for being brave enough to share! As a fellow newbie, I'm really interested to read everyone's comments and tips. The frame lifter does look a bit cumbersome and slow, so I'd perhaps get some thinner gloves and lift by the lugs? I've gone through three (!) pairs of latex gloves trying to get the right size, as I have teeny hands and I end up trapping baggy fingertips under the lugs. I'm still not brave enough for nitriles, but I've settled on a tight pair of XXS marigolds to give myself enough dexterity; they make inspecting so much easier!

Being the world’s biggest feartie I used my kid gloves that over the years have become brown with wax, propolis....you name it.
The fun is the nitrile gloves over the kid gloves.

 

[drdrday]

Consensus seems to be the gentler approach re smoke is better - why is that?

In my (limited) experience too much smoke can get them riled up rather than calm. I hardly use any smoke, but just have the smoker on standby in case. Best tip is to be quick and calm when inspecting and most of the time you'll be done before the bees even noticed you. You also don't need to inspect every frame in a box either. Just go straight to the central brood frames if that's your reason for inspecting (or straight to the outer frames if you're checking stores). That way you only have to disturb half the box and it takes you half the time.
Like several of the other comments I find a pair of nitriles gives you much more dexterity, and allows you to be more delicate with the bees. I've never used a frame lifter but it seems like complicating things when all you really need is a hive tool and your own hands.
After just a few inspections you really get into a routine and it becomes second nature; which side of the hive you stand, how you hold your hive tool and a frame at the same time etc.

 

[pargyle]

Sorry .. I gave up after 20 minutes .. I have a few comments ..these are not meant to be unkind - if this was your first inspection you are to be commended.

1. Try and be quicker .. it really is not good having a hive open for that length of time.
2. Have a reason for inspecting - finding the queen is not a good reason. If you have eggs and BIAS you have a queen.
3. Ditch the frame lifter - get used to picking the frames up by the lugs and the beekeepers twist - I can't tell you how to do this - look at how good beekeepers pick up a frame and inspect it - first one side then the oher - A google search will find some I'm sure..
4. Ditch the welding gloves . marigolds with a pair of nitriles on top are sting proof but give you the 'feel' you need to handle the bees,
5. Less smoke - your bees were very well behaved - you were smoking them when they really didn't need it.
6. You have a half drawn brood box and two supers on it .. far too much space. I don't put a super on until I have at least 6 or 7 frames of brood and I'm on 14 x 12. As far as I could see - perhaps three or four frames of capped brood at most in your brood box.
7. There is no need to take outer frames that don't have brood on them out .. if it is just stores, lift half out, quick look, back in, slide along, onto the next. You should really only be looking at the brood frames. Indeed. at this time of the year it is questionable whether a full inspection is really necessary. An invasive inspection like this will set a colony back days ... if not weeks. At this point in the season less disturbance the better.
8. What were the two white tablets you put on top of the frames in the brood box when you were putting them back together ?

All constructive comments - if you had a mentor alongside I'm sure that they would be saying the same.. Well done anyway, you got through it without any disasters and that can't be said for many time served beekeepers !

 

[drdrday]

8. What were the two white tablets you put on top of the frames in the brood box when you were putting them back together ?

They're temperature and humidity monitors
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/temp-and-humidity-for-inder-£20.48513/

 

[Speybee]

They're temperature and humidity monitors
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/temp-and-humidity-for-inder-£20.48513/

Would the bees not propolise them?

 

[Swarm]

With regards the question about smoke, how much, when and how applied. Firstly, the poor little creatures have very sensitive antennae so try to be mindful of this, the idea is to move them out of harms way and keep them safe on the combs. I have some wonderful colonies that can easily be inspected with no smoke at all but this does not mean I don't use any. At the height of the season, you don't have time to wiggle your fingers to move bees, there's a carpet of black bees, happily flicking their wings but they get in the way of the Hoffman bars don't they, bless them. With a tiny little puff you can herd them away from being crushed. Don't aim at the bees, direct the smoke so it drops gently onto them.
Just like us, they can have off days and there is usually a reason so react to the situation and note it.
The OP is bound to take a long time inspecting. It's new, it's wonderful so quite forgivable. After the initial excitement, the dedication begins.
Like everything else with your beekeeping, treat these precious creatures with the respect they deserve and generally they will repay you.
Every time I open a hive I feel privileged that they allow me to delve into their world.

 

[bobba]

Hi, Hughmann I enjoyed you video. I am a 2nd year keeper, so still very much a novice. When it comes to bee handling I am self taught, so I am not the best qualified to help. I am certinaly no expert, but have come a long way over the last year. I can only say what has worked for me.

Sometimes I think the pros overlook the most basic things, so hopefully I can offer some advice they may have overlooked.

I think you need to speed up a lot, that will partly come with time but a few changes to your methods will help. Like others have said, start by ditching the frame lifter. I have the same J tool and like it. I also have big gloves too (I know I am a very naughty boy.....). So If the gloves work for you then keep them.

When you lifted out the empty frame at the start, I would not have bothered faffing around putting it on a frame rest as there were no bees on it. Just pop it out the way. You may find a dummy board helpful.

Once you have lifted the first frame/dummy board out of the way, use your hive tool to free up all or several frames at a time. Then you can quickly lift and inspect several frames without having to keep picking up your tool. As you get better you will get the knack of lifting frames without putting down the tool.

Sometimes just lifting the frame a little will allow you to see all you need. If holding by the lugs and standing where the camera is, you can look at the front, then peep over the top to see the back.

If you pay attention you will see in several places the bees temperament changes with the weather. When the sun shines they were calmer.

When lifting the super off, first you cracked it with the tool. Then you slid it a little over the brood box. Then you twisted before lifting. This risked rolling and crushing bees.

You started well with a good cracking open. If its a sticky one you may even need to crack all 4 sides . After cracking you needed to stand where the camera is, get a good grip both sides, then lift from one side until it opens a touch, then from the other side, doing the twist as you lift. You will learn the feel of connecting brace comb over time and how much force/speed it tacks to safely break.

I keep a hive stand handy, I put empty supers on it to adjust the height, That way I can have a place to pop supers without lifting them up and down. I struggle with heavy supers, the weight of them took me by surprise too.

If I plan to inspect the brood box, I do not faff with the supers first, I fear I will be driving more bees down into the brood box. So I whip the supers off, inspect the brood boxes, then have a quick peep in the supers as they go back on.

I don't mean to pick on every fault, I am just trying to help. It was indeed brave of you to post the vid for criticism.

I am sure the pros will be along soon to tell you everything I have said is wrong and kindly explain the proper way. That's what often seems to happen when I try to help. If they do then I get to learn something. So its all good in the end.

You seem very calm around the bees, you do not appear to be afraid of them or inclined to panic. So you seem to have crossed a big hurdle a lot of beginners struggle with.

And finally, bees will often bump you before stinging, its the bee warning shot.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi, Hughmann I enjoyed you video. I am a 2nd year keeper, so still very much a novice. When it comes to bee handling I am self taught, so I am not the best qualified to help. I am certinaly no expert, but have come a long way over the last year. I can only say what has worked for me.

Sometimes I think the pros overlook the most basic things, so hopefully I can offer some advice they may have overlooked.

I think you need to speed up a lot, that will partly come with time but a few changes to your methods will help. Like others have said, start by ditching the frame lifter. I have the same J tool and like it. I also have big gloves too (I know I am a very naughty boy.....). So If the gloves work for you then keep them.

When you lifted out the empty frame at the start, I would not have bothered faffing around putting it on a frame rest as there were no bees on it. Just pop it out the way. You may find a dummy board helpful.

Once you have lifted the first frame/dummy board out of the way, use your hive tool to free up all or several frames at a time. Then you can quickly lift and inspect several frames without having to keep picking up your tool. As you get better you will get the knack of lifting frames without putting down the tool.

Sometimes just lifting the frame a little will allow you to see all you need. If holding by the lugs and standing where the camera is, you can look at the front, then peep over the top to see the back.

If you pay attention you will see in several places the bees temperament changes with the weather. When the sun shines they were calmer.

When lifting the super off, first you cracked it with the tool. Then you slid it a little over the brood box. Then you twisted before lifting. This risked rolling and crushing bees.

You started well with a good cracking open. If its a sticky one you may even need to crack all 4 sides . After cracking you needed to stand where the camera is, get a good grip both sides, then lift from one side until it opens a touch, then from the other side, doing the twist as you lift. You will learn the feel of connecting brace comb over time and how much force/speed it tacks to safely break.

I keep a hive stand handy, I put empty supers on it to adjust the height, That way I can have a place to pop supers without lifting them up and down. I struggle with heavy supers, the weight of them took me by surprise too.

If I plan to inspect the brood box, I do not faff with the supers first, I fear I will be driving more bees down into the brood box. So I whip the supers off, inspect the brood boxes, then have a quick peep in the supers as they go back on.

I don't mean to pick on every fault, I am just trying to help. It was indeed brave of you to post the vid for criticism.

I am sure the pros will be along soon to tell you everything I have said is wrong and kindly explain the proper way. That's what often seems to happen when I try to help. If they do then I get to learn something. So its all good in the end.

You seem very calm around the bees, you do not appear to be afraid of them or inclined to panic. So you seem to have crossed a big hurdle a lot of beginners struggle with.

And finally, bees will often bump you before stinging, its the bee warning shot.

I'm not a pro but have several years under my belt. That was a lovely post bobba. Agree with all of it

 

[Norton Caff]

I'd agree with all that has been said but would add three thoughts. As you replace frames after inspecting them keep them squashed together. Leaving frames gapped means you lose your working space and start rolling bees which can annoy them and when you get everything back together you've a lot of spaces for bees to get squashed as you push it all together. The subject of gloves comes up a lot. I wear tight heavy duty marigolds for 2 reasons. The first is that, even though I don't get stung a lot, I have a strong response to stings and that knowledge means I would not be calm, confident and careful if I went into my hives bare handed. Being jumpy is asking for trouble. Secondly, bees don't need our help passing disease around colonies. After every hive inspection I scrub all the propolis off in a soda and washing up liquid solution and hopefully enter the next hive with clean gloves and clean hive tool. You can't do that to kid gloves (and some would argue skin either). My final comment is to quote a very experienced beekeeper who often says "Bees, not kippers!"

 

[pargyle]

A couple of good posts from Bobba and Norton Caff ... I'm a hobby beekeper as well and over the years have taken every opportunity to watch other beekeepers (good and bad) to see how they do things. What I do has been the result of seeing what works for them, trying it myself and either changing my ways or discarding what they do as not working for me. Over time you will get quicker - and more accustomed to the manipulations. If you take on board all the advice offered you will get there a lot quicker than I did !! Take every opportunity to see what other people do ... but think for yourself as well.

 

[Arfermo]

The subject of gloves comes up a lot. I wear tight heavy duty marigolds. After every hive inspection I scrub all the propolis off in a soda and washing up liquid solution and hopefully enter the next hive with clean gloves and clean hive tool. You can't do that to kid gloves (and some would argue skin either).

Thanks for your comment. I have always used castellations so don't slide frames at all. I don't have any adverse reaction to stings but they still hurt. For umpteen years I have been using Sainsburys washing up gloves with a longish sleeve that covers my bee-suit sleeve - bit like yours I think - which I then parcel tape around the top. Bees have manged to ping me through them very rarely if they are prepared to persevere. They are really excellent for cleaning the way you do it too, last for ages - about £3.50 when I last found some.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Offending post from another forum member removed.