Ivy Honey

[bellabee]

We have a super mostly full of ivy honey from last year, thoughts on putting on top of our brood and a half with a open crown board separating?

 

[oliver90owner]

My thoughts? I wouldn't bother. It may never be used as the OSR will be adding to it very shortly.

If you want it shifting, put it below the brood nest and they will move it up.

Think! It is the natural thing for them to do (well not exactly natural, as they would not normally be so stupid as to storing their goodies below where they can protect it, and get at it for use in cold weather.

What a granulating mixture!! OSR and ivy in the same frames!!

RAB

 

[itma]

How about keeping it for the time (it will come) when you need to feed them?

 

[bellabee]

RAB,

Thanks! Quick question!

We are working our hive like this:

top
crown
---qx---
half brood
brood

would you suggest we put the ivy super between the two broods like this and move the qx down allowing that half brood to be a super again, once the bees have hatched and the Q can not get throigh to lay in any more:

top
crown
(super added when osr flowers)
half brood - to become super
---qx---
ivy super - to become brood
brood

this may give us an already full super, and if we add another empty super on top in a week or so when the osr comes out - end result hoping to be they have the ivy honey and still keep there half brood box, we get two supers of honey...

Thanks

 

[bellabee]

....

This will probably mess their system up!!

 

[Chris Luck]

How about keeping it for the time (it will come) when you need to feed them?

That's exactly what I do with any OSR that sets in the super frames, save it for feeding when required.

Chris

 

[bellabee]

We did keep it for feeding, but seem to have missed that window!

 

[itma]

We did keep it for feeding, but seem to have missed that window!

There will be another opportunity... !

 

[Ely]

Don't want to be a thread cuckoo here but pointless starting a new thread and anyone answering my questions could also help the OP and others.

I have a commercial and a super of granulated honey.

1. If I were to put it under the 16x10 brood box and a super on top would they reliquidise it?

2. If I chose to use it as feed, could I put it on top of the already huge brood box for winter. I'd have guessed no because that is way too much space to keep warm. So does this mean you can't use crystalised stores as feed for a commercial hive?

 

[oliver90owner]

Bellabee,

top
crown
(super added when osr flowers)
half brood - to become super
---qx---
ivy super - to become brood
brood

Ask yourself: Is that under the brood? The answer might give a clue as to whether it would be a good idea.

With granulated stores and a full brood box, they are likely to be swarming before they make space. Oh, and watch the shallow with brood - they may build supercedure cells in it.

When I say under, I really do mean under. Not above, in between or anything else. I occasionally get things wrong, but not too often.

Each part of a hive has a use, A crownboard is the top cover to their home and goes under the roof which keeps the elements off.

Ely,

1. They would move it.
2. Why would you want another box of stores over a 16 x 10 for winter?

My bees usually collect quite a bit of ivy honey for winter stores. Normally there is little or no problem with it.

Read my post #2. The bees would move it up (all supposing they were given ample time to do it) as winter stores.

 

[Ely]

Bellabee,

top
crown
(super added when osr flowers)
half brood - to become super
---qx---
ivy super - to become brood
brood

Ask yourself: Is that under the brood? The answer might give a clue as to whether it would be a good idea.

With granulated stores and a full brood box, they are likely to be swarming before they make space. Oh, and watch the shallow with brood - they may build supercedure cells in it.

When I say under, I really do mean under. Not above, in between or anything else. I occasionally get things wrong, but not too often.

Each part of a hive has a use, A crownboard is the top cover to their home and goes under the roof which keeps the elements off.

Ely,

1. They would move it.
2. Why would you want another box of stores over a 16 x 10 for winter?

My bees usually collect quite a bit of ivy honey for winter stores. Normally there is little or no problem with it.

Read my post #2. The bees would move it up (all supposing they were given ample time to do it) as winter stores.

1. Does that mean reliquidise?
2. I wouldn't ideally. Just want to know what to do with these pain in the arse frames

 

[itma]

... Just want to know what to do with these pain in the arse frames

I think the advice is to hang onto them.


If you don't need to feed in June (and it is possible that it might be a very thin time this dry year), then you could give them to the bees when you remove the honey crop (or rather after any after-crop treatment). Then, putting them in a 'nadir' shallow box under the brood box would be one way the bees might empty them. That way, they could have all winter to try and deal with the stuff! Another possibility might be to offer them as per 'wet supers' for robbing above an open crown board (which ought to be called a clearer board without an escape fitted, but hey ...) Offering them above the crownboard would make it easier for you to occasionally mist them with water, to ease the use/reuse after it has set solid. My suspicion is that, if going that route, it would be best to only offer them one frame at a time, so that they could concentrate their efforts, and you avoided being left with more than one half-emptied frame ... to try and store for another year!

But for now, likely just keep them safe until they are needed.

 

[poshpikey]

I thought that if OSR honey set hard in the comb then the bees couldn't use it?

 

[oliver90owner]

Amazing how many thoughts are wrong. Of course they can.

 

[Chris Luck]

Amazing how many thoughts are wrong. Of course they can.

Of course they can and DO.

Chris

 

[Ely]

I think the advice is to hang onto them.


If you don't need to feed in June (and it is possible that it might be a very thin time this dry year), then you could give them to the bees when you remove the honey crop (or rather after any after-crop treatment). Then, putting them in a 'nadir' shallow box under the brood box would be one way the bees might empty them. That way, they could have all winter to try and deal with the stuff! Another possibility might be to offer them as per 'wet supers' for robbing above an open crown board (which ought to be called a clearer board without an escape fitted, but hey ...) Offering them above the crownboard would make it easier for you to occasionally mist them with water, to ease the use/reuse after it has set solid. My suspicion is that, if going that route, it would be best to only offer them one frame at a time, so that they could concentrate their efforts, and you avoided being left with more than one half-emptied frame ... to try and store for another year!

But for now, likely just keep them safe until they are needed.

I like the sound of giving it over crown board in Atumn after honey crop/supers have been moved. They can then take it down and store for winter. Great idea. Thanks

I'm a firm believer that bees should get a lot of honey in their diet over winter as opposed to just sugar syrup. Honey doesn't have antibacterial and other medical advantages for no reason. I think it is important for their strength and health in general and may improve the odds of winter survival as opposed to just using sugar and water. Maybe non of that matters if you beekeep for a living and are constantly replacing queens etc.

 

[bellabee]

oliver90owner > Thanks i just wanted to check.

itma > I like your thinking with Ely, leave it above the crown so they can take it back down, you recommend do this when? Autumn? August?

Thanks

 

[itma]

itma > I like your thinking with Ely, leave it above the crown so they can take it back down, you recommend do this when? Autumn? August?

I would have thought that after you have removed your honey crop, and then done whatever varroa treatment you deem appropriate, you'd be starting to think of "autumn feeding" - which is where the old ivy honey could be employed.

However, since you have a standard National brood box, as opposed to Ely's much larger Commercial, you could more easily risk them completely filling the BB with stores, so HMQ runs out of room, and half the team going off into the wilderness as a late swarm ...
So in your position, I'd go with RAB's suggestion of giving them the whole boxful, underneath the BB (and above the floor!) to overwinter on that brood and a half. Just a few minutes to put in place, (you don't have a Commercial BB to lift!) and they ought to be well-fed for the winter. But do 'heft' immediately, so that you know what that configuration feels like when its 'full'.

 

[bellabee]

itma> thank you. We will do this So you do not think the queen will go in to the super we put at the bottom and lay in there at all? They should just move it all up?

On risk of sounding like a complete beginner what does 'over wintering' mean?

Thanks in advance.

 

[itma]

Overwintering = spending the whole winter (like that)

Hopefully, by the following spring, your 'nadir' (under, not over which is what 'super' means) should be picked clean, and the brood likely higher up (warmer) in the BB.
That's the theory! Various recent threads have covered reconfiguring {ADDED FOR CLARITY - in spring} using a QX and the overwintered half box on top of it (without Queenie) to clear any small quantity of brood from those frames. But that problem, should it arise, would be for next Spring at the earliest. And yes, even if previously used for brood, you can still use those frames in honey supers. (Not ideal for cut comb though!)