Ivy honey - what am I missing

[Beagle23]

It's the same every year, the bees forage on masses of ivy around the garden in the autumn, usually filling a couple of supers per colony. It remains untouched through the winter and I inevitably end up feeding. Then in the spring it remains untouched. The last couple of years I removed most of the ivy frames before the spring flow begins, but left a couple in situ to see if the bees will finally eat the stuff, but it just sits there even when the colonies are at full strength.
What am I missing?

 

[user 20297]

It's the same every year, the bees forage on masses of ivy around the garden in the autumn, usually filling a couple of supers per colony. It remains untouched through the winter and I inevitably end up feeding. Then in the spring it remains untouched. The last couple of years I removed most of the ivy frames before the spring flow begins, but left a couple in situ to see if the bees will finally eat the stuff, but it just sits there even when the colonies are at full strength.
What am I missing?

From my limited experience with bees, if conditions allow them to find an immediate source of fresh forage, they will consume that in preference to stores....stores are for that "rainy day". We can't know if the bees would eventually have consumed the ivy honey because the feed would have been easier for them to take down.
I presume that any type of honey that is stored towards the outside of the cluster might be left unused for many years in natural or semi-natural conditions.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What am I missing?

a few things I can see
Why leave a super on all winter - do they really need it? I've a load of colonies in one apiary which have gone through the whole winter on a single national deep, piled loads of ivy in at the end of the autumn, and are now bouncing. No supplementary feeding whasoever - until Sunday I hadn't even been up there since Christmas week.
Instead of leaving them consume the stores in the supers you panic and supplementary feed - they will always go for the 'ready food' and keep the stores in the stores (stores are for storing doncha know) until it is really needed. it's another case of us needlessly anthropomorphising assuming that bees do the same as us - emptying the freezer and then restocking with fresher food. The feeding you gave them is outside the hive, so they will quickly act to move it in in case it dissappears again and eat that rather than shift stores around for no real reason.

 

[Beagle23]

From my limited experience with bees, if conditions allow them to find an immediate source of fresh forage, they will consume that in preference to stores....stores are for that "rainy day". We can't know if the bees would eventually have consumed the ivy honey because the feed would have been easier for them to take down.
I presume that any type of honey that is stored towards the outside of the cluster might be left unused for many years in natural or semi-natural conditions.

Yes, I absolutely agree regarding convenience.
I'm curious though as to why I've never seen it consumed or moved, even when left in the middle of the first super above the brood box.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm curious though as to why I've never seen it consumed or moved, even when left in the middle of the first super above the brood box.

why would they? it's stores, only to be broached when needed. Do you constantly rearrange your tinned food cupboard just for the sake of it?

 

[Beagle23]

a few things I can see
Why leave a super on all winter - do they really need it? I've a load of colonies in one apiary which have gone through the whole winter on a single national deep, piled loads of ivy in at the end of the autumn, and are now bouncing. No supplementary feeding whasoever - until Sunday I hadn't even been up there since Christmas week.
Instead of leaving them consume the stores in the supers you panic and supplementary feed - they will always go for the 'ready food' and keep the stores in the stores (stores are for storing doncha know) until it is really needed. it's another case of us needlessly anthropomorphising assuming that bees do the same as us - emptying the freezer and then restocking with fresher food. The feeding you gave them is outside the hive, so they will quickly act to move it in in case it dissappears again and eat that rather than shift stores around for no real reason.

I always go with one super on over the winter and it's worked well so far. I certainly agree that supplying them with food (in this case fondant), might explain why the ivy is being neglected, but there are other periods of the year where the ivy is present and the fondant isn't, and the ivy remains untouched.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I always go with one super on over the winter and it's worked well so far

but you were just moaning that they don't touch the stores in the super, so it was just a waste storing it..
Constant feeding of fondant means they don't need to rely on stores

there are other periods of the year where the ivy is present and the fondant isn't, and the ivy remains untouched.

And unless they all died of starvation at that point there was obviously food available elsewhere so ergo there was no need to broach the stores.

 

[deemann1]

I have one apiary that doesn't need winter feeding due to all the ivy they store there .all on single brood .i usualy have to pull 2 or 3 frames in spring because they store so much . I do wonder is there more nutrition in ivy for bees because there is always loads left after winter

 

[CrossvilleBees]

I have one apiary that doesn't need winter feeding due to all the ivy they store there .all on single brood .i usualy have to pull 2 or 3 frames in spring because they store so much . I do wonder is there more nutrition in ivy for bees because there is always loads left after winter

Living in a very wooded area I see similar things. Still a newbie and learning aas I go, but I gave up supplementary feeding 2 seasons ago after losing 2 colonies and nearly losing a third because they packed the hive with syrup plus ivy nectar and had too few winter bees due to lack of laying space. My hives still remain heavy all winter without feeding so clearly they are getting all they need from the local forage. Each year they have been bouncing into spring with loads left and I take out a couple of frames to create space although I wonder whether the need to draw new comb on the foundation I put in knocks them back.

 

[Erichalfbee]

but I gave up supplementary feeding 2 seasons ago after losing 2 colonies and nearly losing a third because they packed the hive with syrup plus ivy nectar and had too few winter bees due to lack of laying space.

Indeed. You don't feed if you don't need to but you do feed if you do.

 

[Ian123]

Living in a very wooded area I see similar things. Still a newbie and learning aas I go, but I gave up supplementary feeding 2 seasons ago after losing 2 colonies and nearly losing a third because they packed the hive with syrup plus ivy nectar and had too few winter bees due to lack of laying space. My hives still remain heavy all winter without feeding so clearly they are getting all they need from the local forage. Each year they have been bouncing into spring with loads left and I take out a couple of frames to create space although I wonder whether the need to draw new comb on the foundation I put in knocks them back.

Much like you plenty of ivy near mine. I would however still think of a small feed containing a little thymol as nosema prevention.

 

[CrossvilleBees]

Much like you plenty of ivy near mine. I would however still think of a small feed containing a little thymol as nosema prevention.

Thank you - I hadn't considered that but will add it to my autumn routine.