It's Me...I'm Back

[Tremyfro]

Funnily enough...I had forgotten the honey emulsified thymol mix...but I spied it on the shelf when I went to get the thymol crystals. Since you all decried my honey emulsified thymol....I thought I would make the lecithin one. Comparing...there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference ATM.
The tiny spores/cells...I saw were slightly elongated circles....they showed up as bright white....it was difficult to get the magnification right and it wasn't helped by OH insisting dirt on the lenses ..were the nosema....until I showed him that moving the slide didn't change the view.
I am going to use the spray technique to treat them. The honey doesn't matter... I'll let them make enough for themselves ...if they recover.
From other posts...it would appear a rapid turnaround should occur....
Despite washing my hands any number of times since making the thymol base mix...my hands still smell of thymol. Perhaps it will clear the sinuses during the night!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sounds like Nosema apis then - both types are rice shaped but Ceranae is (a little - it's pretty hard to tell) more elongated and pointy like masmati rice as opposed to Apis being more rounded like pudding rice

 

[Tremyfro]

Sounds like Nosema apis then - both types are rice shaped but Ceranae is (a little - it's pretty hard to tell) more elongated and pointy like masmati rice as opposed to Apis being more rounded like pudding rice

Yes...I think you are right. I spent some time studying slides on part 13 of Scientific Beekeeping. It seems that the Ceranae can vary quite a bit in size and shape.
Of course...during the nosema slide making ...I looked at my bees legs, wings, antennae etc...I was well and truly sidetracked.
Supper was rather late!

 

[BeeJayBee]

... that will ruin any chance of an uncontaminated honey harvest for the season...

Sometimes it's a choice of bees or honey. For Trem it's possibly bees or no bees. Hobson's Choice, I think.

From other posts...it would appear a rapid turnaround should occur....

I hope so.

I've yet to see the results of thymol treatment for either of the Nosemas, only ever had to do autopsies, so it'd be good to have some updates please.

 

[Erichalfbee]

so nothing to lose and all to gain

And you don't need much, I'm sure they just eat it all up.
Use a hairdressers' spray, better than a garden spray bottle....it produces a finer spray

 

[Tremyfro]

Perhaps I should treat all my colonies???
i have read that nosema is so widespread that it is present in all colonies and that the colonies live with a level at all times.
So treating them all might reduce the overal nosema levels....and reduce the chances of a colony succumbing to an out of control infection.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Perhaps I should treat all my colonies???
i have read that nosema is so widespread that it is present in all colonies and that the colonies live with a level at all times.
So treating them all might reduce the overal nosema levels....and reduce the chances of a colony succumbing to an out of control infection.

That's why you should feed thymolised syrup in the autumn for them to store for winter (the danger time) Nosema A is pretty seasonal so strong otherwise healthy colonies should be able to cope with it from now on

 

[Tremyfro]

That's why you should feed thymolised syrup in the autumn for them to store for winter (the danger time) Nosema A is pretty seasonal so strong otherwise healthy colonies should be able to cope with it from now on

Well...you know...I did feed them thymolised syrup last autumn....I have quite a few frames full of it..left over from the dead colonies. I haven't dealt with those yet as I can't be sure about why those colonies died. I did think it was queen failure...but in the light of this nosema colony...perhaps it was nosema which killed them after all. I kept a few bees back from one colony....for dissection...I wonder if I did a belly squash on those when it would show nosema...they are rather dried up.

 

[pargyle]

Well...you know...I did feed them thymolised syrup last autumn....I have quite a few frames full of it..left over from the dead colonies. I haven't dealt with those yet as I can't be sure about why those colonies died. I did think it was queen failure...but in the light of this nosema colony...perhaps it was nosema which killed them after all. I kept a few bees back from one colony....for dissection...I wonder if I did a belly squash on those when it would show nosema...they are rather dried up.

If you are going to keep dead bees for future inspection you are better to pop them in the freezer and keep them there ... a very small zip lock plastic bag with as much of the air pressed out is best and then put the bags inside a plastic box. You can thaw them out and the Nosema spores are still visible when you do the crushing. I'm not sure whether dried up bees will be as successful as I've never seen dried bees used ...

 

[For want of a better word]

Funnily enough...I had forgotten the honey emulsified thymol mix...but I spied it on the shelf when I went to get the thymol crystals. Since you all decried my honey emulsified thymol....I thought I would make the lecithin one. Comparing...there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference ATM.

We did... I am not one for feeding honey to bees.. particularly if you are not certain of its provenance,... could be some of that AFB contaminated stuff Defra FERA FSA or whatever they have morphed into seem incapable of regulating imports of!

Did hearsay that Hiveclean make a product to spray over infected bees.. possibly for chalkbrood... have seen garlik juice used mixed with sugar syrup.. maybe that was for DWV or CBPS???
Do not use petrol.. it will definitely kill the bees1

Yeghes da

 

[Tremyfro]

Funnily enough...I had forgotten the honey emulsified thymol mix...but I spied it on the shelf when I went to get the thymol crystals. Since you all decried my honey emulsified thymol....I thought I would make the lecithin one. Comparing...there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference ATM.

We did... I am not one for feeding honey to bees.. particularly if you are not certain of its provenance,... could be some of that AFB contaminated stuff Defra FERA FSA or whatever they have morphed into seem incapable of regulating imports of!

Did hearsay that Hiveclean make a product to spray over infected bees.. possibly for chalkbrood... have seen garlik juice used mixed with sugar syrup.. maybe that was for DWV or CBPS???
Do not use petrol.. it will definitely kill the bees1

Yeghes da

You might be interested...or you might not...hmmm..
I went to get the thymolated base mix in which I used...my own honey so provenance is assured.....to emulsify the thymol. It's true that it separated into two layers...the top layer an oily mix. When shaken it becomes a creamy coloured liquid. Now I've stood it against the thymolated/ lecithin base mix....which has stood overnight...it separated as well...into a clear top layer of oily liquid. So did I make it up incorrectly? I followed Hivemakers recipe. The honey emulsified thymol separates much more slowly than the lecithin.
I thought by what you all said last year...that the lecithin mixed the oily thymol into the surgical spirit/ water mix and that it didn't separate....that it stayed mixed because the lecithin emulsified it.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

You might be interested...or you might not...hmmm..
I went to get the thymolated base mix in which I used...my own honey so provenance is assured.....to emulsify the thymol. It's true that it separated into two layers...the top layer an oily mix. When shaken it becomes a creamy coloured liquid. Now I've stood it against the thymolated/ lecithin base mix....which has stood overnight...it separated as well...into a clear top layer of oily liquid. So did I make it up incorrectly? I followed Hivemakers recipe. The honey emulsified thymol separates much more slowly than the lecithin.
I thought by what you all said last year...that the lecithin mixed the oily thymol into the surgical spirit/ water mix and that it didn't separate....that it stayed mixed because the lecithin emulsified it.

Can't say about your mixing but I made some emulsion concentrate last autumn for putting in 2:1 winter feed. I didn't notice separation over a week or so but I went to the same bottle recently to make up some thin thymolated syrup for spraying and the concentrate had partly separated. I shook it and everything went back to cloudy emulsion. It seems to take quite a while to separate, longer than it takes to use and the bees to store if in thick syrup.

 

[Tremyfro]

Can't say about your mixing but I made some emulsion concentrate last autumn for putting in 2:1 winter feed. I didn't notice separation over a week or so but I went to the same bottle recently to make up some thin thymolated syrup for spraying and the concentrate had partly separated. I shook it and everything went back to cloudy emulsion. It seems to take quite a while to separate, longer than it takes to use and the bees to store if in thick syrup.

It could be that my lecithin wasn't mixed in enough...I think I will liquefy some more lecithin and mix that with the base mix...see what happens. It separates really quickly ATM so it wouldn't be any good for Autumn feeding as it would separate in the feeder.

 

[For want of a better word]

Use fresh lecithin... it is considerable cheaper than honey!

Mytten da

 

[Hivemaker.]

So did I make it up incorrectly?

No you didn't.

I have a large kilner jar of the pre-mix made up last September and there is no separation at all.

Do not use too much lecithin, or it will separate.

 

[Tremyfro]

No you didn't.

I have a large kilner jar of the pre-mix made up last September and there is no separation at all.

Do not use too much lecithin, or it will separate.

Hi Mr H...thanks for replying...
I used a teaspoon of lecithin...as in the recipe....but it separates.
So why is it doing that? I had thought that it acted as an emulsifier?
The lecithin was fresh...only just opened it.
This morning it is a jar of clear liquid with a half inch of oil on top. When I shake it ....it looks like milk but only for a short time as it soon starts to separate again.
For Icanhopit...I only used a small amount of my runny honey...so it didn't break the bank....so you won't have to send me a food parcel.