It's going to be a late one

[pargyle]

Well I've sent of three samples and awaiting results.

Isn't that a bit expensive for a few hundred jars of honey ?

https://www.fera.co.uk/food-safety/in-this-section/authenticity-testing.html
Or are you talking about the national honey monitoring scheme ?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Isn't that a bit expensive for a few hundred jars of honey ?

https://www.fera.co.uk/food-safety/in-this-section/authenticity-testing.html
Or are you talking about the national honey monitoring scheme ?

No, I've sent of two to the hms.
And we have sent of three others.
A few hundred jars in the photo, we have 1400 Philip and buckets.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well I've sent of three samples and awaiting results.

Make sure you have a list of pollen coefficients.
Some small pollens are easily filtered out by the bees' proventriculus and don't appear I high numbers even though the forage source is that and vice versa. A typical underrepresented pollen is Rosebay and an over represented one Bramble. I made that mistake with one sample thinking it was one and it was the other.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No, I've sent of two to the hms.
And we have sent of three others.
A few hundred jars in the photo, we have 1400 Philip and buckets.

And you're in luck this year. They are profiling all samples not just a proportion

 

[pargyle]

No, I've sent of two to the hms.
And we have sent of three others.
A few hundred jars in the photo, we have 1400 Philip and buckets.

Unless you have found a cheap lab for pollen testing you are looking at £250 for three samples - even with 1400 jars that's quite a slug of profit you are taking out of them. If you have a cheaper lab source I'd be interested as I wouldn't mine getting mine tested properly - you can PM me if you don't want to publicise your source.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You lose any naivety defence " we just assumed it was clover etc." If the result come back under the threshold and Trading Standards poke their nose over it

A very important point. I know my local TS looks in here and I’m sure others do

 

[Curly green finger's]

A very important point. I know my local TS looks in here and I’m sure others do

It is a valid point and I thank peabee for his insight.

 

[Arfermo]

What does that mean? What you said is nonsensical. Was that a statement and/or a question; Is a response expected ?

No response needed, just think about it and work it our for yourself.

 

[rolande]

I think this is pretty much what rolande has always said to me. "take from thoughs what you need but always be and think for yourself". ( my saying) and maybe yours rolande?

Yes.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Yes.

No need to say more is there

 

[Frizzaldo]

Bet you're sorry you posted the picture now....
I'm sure if someone in TS has their eye on honey they'll have their hands full dealing with badly labelled honey sold in the supermarkets.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Bet you're sorry you posted the picture now....
I'm sure if someone in TS has their eye on honey they'll have their hands full dealing with badly labelled honey sold in the supermarkets.

Hmmm...
Not really because I've acquired more contacts and learned something.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Sometimes we can be scared of our own shadows, where as a problem shared is a problem halfed as they say.
Going of topic I was speaking to an elderly lady in the hamlet this morning and we were saying gone of the days when folk would just walk into a neighbours house to look after children and share life's tribulations.
Not that I have any but I'm sure you get my point.

 

[Erichalfbee]

'm sure if someone in TS has their eye on honey they'll have their hands full dealing with badly labelled honey sold in the supermarkets.

I’ve been down that avenue with my local TS.
They don’t bother with supermarkets because the can’t afford to. Supermarkets have legendary amounts of money to defend these cases and they do just that.

 

[pargyle]

I’ve been down that avenue with my local TS.
They don’t bother with supermarkets because the can’t afford to. Supermarkets have legendary amounts of money to defend these cases and they do just that.

It's the same as HMRC inland revenue and the HSE ... the easy ones to catch and prosecute are the small fry ... I was once told by a tax inspector ... if you owe millions we have a problem... If you owe thousands... YOU have a problem. I saw that particular saying in action at first hand ! Small fry are easy pickings ....

 

[bobba]

I may have access to all the gear to do pollen analysis. We recently got a Flow Cytometer at our work. however I have no idea if it is suitable for pollen analysis.

Its still the new toy and no one is particularly good at using it yet. We got the machine to do one specific tack, so it sits idle most the time.

If the machine can do pollen analysts, I cannot see it costing £250 to chuck a few samples though. So I think some labs may be cashing in.

Out of curiosity would there be much interest from you lot if the price was cheaper, and what price point would you be tempted?

 

[pargyle]

I may have access to all the gear to do pollen analysis. We recently got a Flow Cytometer at our work. however I have no idea if it is suitable for pollen analysis.

Its still the new toy and no one is particularly good at using it yet. We got the machine to do one specific tack, so it sits idle most the time.

If the machine can do pollen analysts, I cannot see it costing £250 to chuck a few samples though. So I think some labs may be cashing in.

Out of curiosity would there be much interest from you lot if the price was cheaper, and what price point would you be tempted?

I think the problem is that most labs are geared up for servicing commercial organisations ...the £250 appears to be a minium charge .. they will usually do a few samples (3 or 4) within this charge but like all labs .. the cost of setting things up, calibration, the admin and buggeration factor etc. that goes with it often outweighs the minimal amount of time it takes to actually do the work. I suspect that the minimum charge is as much to discourage the one-off, small jobs which (and I have experience in a different field) often struggle to make you any pofit when they go to plan and when they don't ... they cost you money !

 

[Erichalfbee]

It seems you can
https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/nph.16882Edit. The link does work despite what it says

 

[bobba]

I think the problem is that most labs are geared up for servicing commercial organisations ...the £250 appears to be a minium charge .. they will usually do a few samples (3 or 4) within this charge but like all labs .. the cost of setting things up, calibration, the admin and buggeration factor etc. that goes with it often outweighs the minimal amount of time it takes to actually do the work. I suspect that the minimum charge is as much to discourage the one-off, small jobs which (and I have experience in a different field) often struggle to make you any pofit when they go to plan and when they don't ... they cost you money !

I think you are bang on the money.

The machine is expensive, takes a lot of space and is complicated to operate. As you say, all is well when things go to plan, but when things start going wrong a lot of time can get wasted problem solving and re-running tests.

What you say about the minimum charge is a very good point - I expect if a few of us all sent samples together we could get a better deal.

 

[Wilco]

I'm using one of my student projects this year to do one of the simpler suggestions from my query on here in the Summer for project ideas. @Patrick1 suggested looking at pollen in honey. The student has come up with a method used elsewhere to dilute then centrifuge down the honey to extract the pollen to count it using a light microscope and a grid. Nothing complex--centrifuge and a microscope. Could go a step further to identify pollen sources this way. No reason for it to have to cost hundreds and require expensive equipment...

Anyway, back to marking coursework...

Edit: to clarify, the student came up with the specifics of the method from elsewhere but I think the use of centrifuge and microscope was suggested from the outset by Patrick.