Italian Buckfast Vs Carniolan?

[Tannkman]

Does anyone know if it's possible to introduce an Italian Buckfast Queen into an existing Carnolian colony?
I've recently lost my Carnolian Queen and have purchased an Italian Buckfast Queen to replace her.
I've done what I was advised to do in leaving the plastic lug in place for two days and then removed it.
Just checked on the bees today (which is 10 days later) and it would seem that the colony has killed the new queen.
Can anyone advise please?

 

[user 819]

Were you 100% certain the Carni Q was dead/lost ?
Put in a test frame of eggs very young larvae, that will give you an answer.

 

[Tannkman]

Thanks Hemp, yes the original queen has gone 100% Also got a mate to check as well. Only had very old capped brood i.e no larvae and no eggs so definitely gone.

 

[B+.]

Does anyone know if it's possible to introduce an Italian Buckfast Queen into an existing Carnolian colony?
I've recently lost my Carnolian Queen and have purchased an Italian Buckfast Queen to replace her.
I've done what I was advised to do in leaving the plastic lug in place for two days and then removed it.
Just checked on the bees today (which is 10 days later) and it would seem that the colony has killed the new queen.
Can anyone advise please?

The best way to introduce any queen is to give them no choice. After that, it's out of your hands.

1. Make a queenless nuc of sealed brood and young bees (if you have time, raise frames of brood above a queen excluder for 9 days to make sure it's all sealed, then brush/shake the bees off the comb and destroy any/all emergency queen cells.). Put the nuc on a different stand/facing a different direction to get rid of foragers. They will fly back to their old hive.
2. Introduce the queen in a push-in cage over emerging brood, nectar but with no adults in the cage with her. She will beg for food through the cage walls but can lay in the vacant cells.
3. leave her like this for 3-5 days (much longer and she'll not have space to lay, much less and the workers may not have got used to her).
4. Observe their behaviour towards the queen inside the cage. If they are hostile, leave her longer.

 

[Tannkman]

The best way to introduce any queen is to give them no choice. After that, it's out of your hands.

1. Make a queenless nuc of sealed brood and young bees (if you have time, raise frames of brood above a queen excluder for 9 days to make sure it's all sealed, then brush/shake the bees off the comb and destroy any/all emergency queen cells.). Put the nuc on a different stand/facing a different direction to get rid of foragers. They will fly back to their old hive.
2. Introduce the queen in a push-in cage over emerging brood, nectar but with no adults in the cage with her. She will beg for food through the cage walls but can lay in the vacant cells.
3. leave her like this for 3-5 days (much longer and she'll not have space to lay, much less and the workers may not have got used to her).
4. Observe their behaviour towards the queen inside the cage. If they are hostile, leave her longer.

 

[Tannkman]

Thanks for your advice. Will try what you suggest.
Much appreciated.

 

[user 819]

Thanks Hemp, yes the original queen has gone 100% Also got a mate to check as well. Only had very old capped brood i.e no larvae and no eggs so definitely gone.

Not gone off lay and playing hard to find ?
Before any Q is introduced a test frame is a sure way to find out for QR or not.

 

[Tannkman]

Not gone off lay and playing hard to find ?
Before any Q is introduced a test frame is a sure way to find out for QR or not.

 

[user 819]

My preferred intro is to dunk the Q completely in honey and plonk her on the top bars to be slowly cleaned up, some use water saying the affect is the same. I think honey take longer to clean up and gives her more time unlike water it doesn't evaporate.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks Hemp, yes the original queen has gone 100% Also got a mate to check as well. Only had very old capped brood i.e no larvae and no eggs so definitely gone.

they could have still made a new queen immediately after the old one had died and she (either virgin or mated) would have killed any subsequebtly introduced queen.

 

[Tannkman]

I'm going to give the new Italian Q another week and try to find her again because I may have missed her. Hopefully by then I am hoping to see eggs if nothing else.
I just had this horror that I shouldn't have introduced a Queen from another species i.e Italian Buckfast Queen to a Carnolian colony that's all.

 

[user 819]

they could have still made a new queen immediately after the old one had died and she (either virgin or mated) would have killed any subsequebtly introduced queen.

Exactly, a test frame is a must to confirm, before throwing 40, 50 quid or more down the drain.

 

[Tannkman]

My preferred intro is to dunk the Q completely in honey and plonk her on the top bars to be slowly cleaned up, some use water saying the affect is the same. I think honey take longer to clean up and gives her more time unlike water it doesn't evaporate.

Thanks Hemp, will try that one.

 

[user 819]

I'm going to give the new Italian Q another week and try to find her again because I may have missed her. Hopefully by then I am hoping to see eggs if nothing else.
I just had this horror that I shouldn't have introduced a Queen from another species i.e Italian Buckfast Queen to a Carnolian colony that's all.

Until you use the test frame technique you won't know what is occurring, it will take all the guess work out of the equation and then you can relax and leave them to get on without being molested.

 

[Tannkman]

Not gone off lay and playing hard to find ?
Before any Q is introduced a test frame is a sure way to find out for QR or not.

Can you explain what you mean by introducing a test frame please?

 

[user 819]

Select a frame of eggs and very young < day old larvae from another colony shake all the bees off and insert it in the suspected QL colony. If they produce QC's then you know they are QL, if they don't produce QC's then a VQ or Q is in residence.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if they don't produce QC's

..........You still don't know whether they have a queen.
The only positive result from a test frame is if they draw QCs some colonies will still doggedly refuse to make a new queen even though they are doomed if they don't

 

[Tannkman]

Select a frame of eggs and very young < day old larvae from another colony shake all the bees off and insert it in the suspected QL colony. If they produce QC's then you know they are QL, if they don't produce QC's then a VQ or Q is in residence.

Thanks Hemp, much appreciated.
I presume by all the responses so far that there isn't a problem with mixing Buckfast Queens with a Carnolian colony and vice versa?
Assuming this then it's more of a case as making sure that there is no queen present (utilising your test frame method) and introducing the new queen more slowly i.e over 5 days?

 

[user 819]

..........You still don't know whether they have a queen.
The only positive result from a test frame is if they draw QCs some colonies will still doggedly refuse to make a new queen even though they are doomed if they don't

I think over the years I have had two colonies that self destructed like that so yes it can happen.

 

[madasafish]

Did the cage you used have fondant under the tab you removed? It should have : used to delay introduction for days till the bees eat it all.