Italian Buckfast Vs Carniolan?

[Stiffy]

I now try to introduce queens that are actively laying i.e. from an apidea as these have a very good chance of being accepted, indeed I have successfully run queens directly into hives at out-apiaries to save me returning to check.
Having lost too many queens received through the post that have stopped laying during their trip I have given up trying to introduce new queens after only leaving them in a cage for 2 days. My approach now is to check after 2 days and knock out any q- cells, leave them another 2 days and again knock any q-cells out. I then start to look at how bees are reacting to the new queen, if they are behaving okay I may release her but nine time out of ten I will leave another couple of days.
I checked a friends hive last weekend and found the hive had accepted and released the queen successfully only to allow her to lay and then supercede !!

 

[madasafish]

.
I checked a friends hive last weekend and found the hive had accepted and released the queen successfully only to allow her to lay and then supercede !!

I wonder which book taught them to do that?
It's not in the syllabus.

 

[Tannkman]

Did the cage you used have fondant under the tab you removed? It should have : used to delay introduction for days till the bees eat it all.

Hi Madasafish, yes it did have the plastic tab in place. I've had conflicting views about this though. Some beekeepers suggest remove the tab straight away and let the bees eat the fondant whereas others say to leave the tab in place for two days and then remove it.
I read an article suggesting that when you introduce a new queen you should leave her alone for a week before inspecting the colony again. On that basis then I removed the tab on day 1 and left them for a week. One hive has accepted the new queen and the other as yet I can't find her.
A mate of mine has said that he has read somewhere that this can happen if the colony is too strong i.e lots of older bees? I also wonder if the poor weather we've been having lately is having a negative impact as well?

 

[Ian123]

My preferred intro is to dunk the Q completely in honey and plonk her on the top bars to be slowly cleaned up, some use water saying the affect is the same. I think honey take longer to clean up and gives her more time unlike water it doesn't evaporate.

Yes dunking works but not so much with a posted queen. Introduce her the standard way. Even those that practice this method on a large scale don’t recommend dunking with queens that have been off lay for a period.

 

[Tannkman]

Hi Madasafish, yes it did have the plastic tab in place. I've had conflicting views about this though. Some beekeepers suggest remove the tab straight away and let the bees eat the fondant whereas others say to leave the tab in place for two days and then remove it.
I read an article suggesting that when you introduce a new queen you should leave her alone for a week before inspecting the colony again. On that basis then I removed the tab on day 1 and left them for a week. One hive has accepted the new queen and the other as yet I can't find her.
A mate of mine has said that he has read somewhere that this can happen if the colony is too strong i.e lots of older bees? I also wonder if the poor weather we've been having lately is having a negative impact as well?

Just read the rest of your post.
Please excuse my ignorance (I'm new to this lark) but what is an Apidea?
I ordered my queen's via a dealer through the post and these are supposed to be mated queen's.

 

[Swarm]

Mated queens sent via post will require tending by her new colony to resume laying as they will be off lay (usually) due to the time in cage.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just read the rest of your post.
Please excuse my ignorance (I'm new to this lark) but what is an Apidea?
I ordered my queen's via a dealer through the post and these are supposed to be mated queen's.

Agree with swarm. Posted queens are mated but they are not laying. There is a huge difference to the bees as far as pheromones go

 

[Tannkman]

Thanks Swarm, thanks Erichalfbee

 

[madasafish]

Just read the rest of your post.
Please excuse my ignorance (I'm new to this lark) but what is an Apidea?
I ordered my queen's via a dealer through the post and these are supposed to be mated queen's.

An Apidea is a mini mating nuc made of High Density Polystyrene.
https://paynesbeefarm.co.uk/products/apidea-mating-hive
Swiss made.. probably the best..

Queen rearing takes loads of resources for a while so minimising the number of bees by using a mini nuc means you require fewer bees to get a Q mated and laying.
( I buy mine cheaply - minimising use of scarce resources )

 

[Tannkman]

An Apidea is a mini mating nuc made of High Density Polystyrene.
https://paynesbeefarm.co.uk/products/apidea-mating-hive
Swiss made.. probably the best..

Queen rearing takes loads of resources for a while so minimising the number of bees by using a mini nuc means you require fewer bees to get a Q mated and laying.
( I buy mine cheaply - minimising use of scarce resources )

Thanks for the info, very much appreciated.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi Madasafish, yes it did have the plastic tab in place. I've had conflicting views about this though. Some beekeepers suggest remove the tab straight away and let the bees eat the fondant whereas others say to leave the tab in place for two days and then remove it.

Unless the bees are very agressive towards the queen I would not leave the tab in place for more than 24 hours, I've had far more introduction failures by leaving the tab in place for more than a day than from leaving them get straight at the candy.

 

[Antipodes]

What is the removable plastic tab?

 

[hemo]

A door to prevent access to the queen .

 

[Sayle]

..........You still don't know whether they have a queen.
The only positive result from a test frame is if they draw QCs some colonies will still doggedly refuse to make a new queen even though they are doomed if they don't

My main hive had a bad queen in there that refused to lay, and when the initial check this spring revealed no eggs but the start of queen cups on the face to supercede I shrugged and popped a frame of eggs and brood in. Opened it up a week later and the hive had clearly decided that the queen was laying again so she didn't need to be replaced and got themselves right back in an unsalvageable situation with no eggs to supercede. The bees often know best but sometimes they clearly don't, especially when you've done something that doesn't happen in nature - ie, transferred brood from another colony. Ended up practicing a bit of regicide and popping a strong swarm in the top.

 

[hemo]

Queen cups aren't a sign of SS, nor the fact that they are on the comb face. Like QC a cup can be found any where in the hive.
For any action on the introduced frame of eggs /larvae one would need to remove the Q first and wait for then to be hopelessly QL with no viable brood remaining.

 

[Tannkman]

Unless the bees are very agressive towards the queen I would not leave the tab in place for more than 24 hours, I've had far more introduction failures by leaving the tab in place for more than a day than from leaving them get straight at the candy.

Thanks Madasafish, you've been really helpful.
Regards Tannkman

 

[Antipodes]

A door to prevent access to the queen .

Ok.... thanks....doesn't the candy prevent immediate access to the queen? It sounds from what Jenkins says, in post #31, that it is somehow over the candy?

 

[nickysolar]

Thanks Hemp, much appreciated.
I presume by all the responses so far that there isn't a problem with mixing Buckfast Queens with a Carnolian colony and vice versa?
Assuming this then it's more of a case as making sure that there is no queen present (utilising your test frame method) and introducing the new queen more slowly i.e over 5 days?

Years ago I tried introducing a carniolan Q to buckfast bees that were hopelessly Qless. They let her lay some eggs then killed her And raised their own Q. Later An old beekeeper told me that bees prefer the same breeds to themselves.
That said, if you have nothing else then it’s worth trying with careful introduction. They will either accept her or else do what they did in my case. Good luck!

 

[Tannkman]

Years ago I tried introducing a carniolan Q to buckfast bees that were hopelessly Qless. They let her lay some eggs then killed her And raised their own Q. Later An old beekeeper told me that bees prefer the same breeds to themselves.
That said, if you have nothing else then it’s worth trying with careful introduction. They will either accept her or else do what they did in my case. Good luck!

Thanks Nicksolar, that is interesting. I did have my own suspicions but being quite new to all this I thought perhaps I was just overthinking it all. It is some reassurance that this is a possibility as now I can probably do something to help avoid the situation i.e Carny Q with Carny colony etc.
Thank you

 

[Ian123]

Nice well behaved bees accept queens of other races well. I’ve introduced carnica/buckfast lots of times. Ian