Is it worth setting up a bait hive?

[Zante]

My mother's lavender bushes are covered in bees. Some bumbles, but mostly honey bees. Apparently none of the neighbours has any hives on their land, so there is a good chance these may be feral.

Whether they are feral or not, do you think it's worth setting up a 6 frame nuc as a bait hive, just in case there is a swarm?
In case a swarm does find the bait nuc, would you think they could just stay in there to be feral, with no assistance until I move into the area next spring?

The nuc would be a Dadant poly with 6 frames (to give you an idea of the size) and the location would be central Italy (to give you an idea of the climate)

I know it's like asking the length of a piece of string, but after a few years you do acquire a feel for these things, and I'd appreciate the educated guesses of more experienced members.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

My mother's lavender bushes are covered in bees. Some bumbles, but mostly honey bees. Apparently none of the neighbours has any hives on their land, so there is a good chance these may be feral.

Whether they are feral or not, do you think it's worth setting up a 6 frame nuc as a bait hive, just in case there is a swarm?
In case a swarm does find the bait nuc, would you think they could just stay in there to be feral, with no assistance until I move into the area next spring?

The nuc would be a Dadant poly with 6 frames (to give you an idea of the size) and the location would be central Italy (to give you an idea of the climate)

I know it's like asking the length of a piece of string, but after a few years you do acquire a feel for these things, and I'd appreciate the educated guesses of more experienced members.

It's a fabulous rush and what's the worst that can happen?

 

[masterBK]

You will need to treat for varroa and probably have to feed them. Statistically only 25% of prime feral swarms in Europe manage to survive their first winter. Any swarms at this time of year are likely to be casts and very few of these can be expected to survive a winter without lots of help. It is getting near the very end of the swarming season so chances of attracting one into your bait hive are getting slim. I would guess there is a beekeeper nearby as not many feral colonies around these days since Varroa (not forgetting hive beetle in Italy)

 

[wessexmario]

If you have the bits, it's always worth setting up a bait hive.

Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

 

[pargyle]

You will need to treat for varroa and probably have to feed them. Statistically only 25% of prime feral swarms in Europe manage to survive their first winter. Any swarms at this time of year are likely to be casts and very few of these can be expected to survive a winter without lots of help. It is getting near the very end of the swarming season so chances of attracting one into your bait hive are getting slim. I would guess there is a beekeeper nearby as not many feral colonies around these days since Varroa (not forgetting hive beetle in Italy)

It's central Italy .. unless the location is very high in altitude it's a very mild climate and they still have two months of summer at least left over there. If a swarm moved in during the next few weeks they have every chance of getting their act together in time to survive over the winter. I picked up a swarm in July last year - they happily filled out 6 frames (and I'm foundationless) and stocked enough away to see them through winter and they are doing very nicely this year.

I don't treat for varroa just as a matter of course - bees can survive and thrive without treatment and the SHB outbreak in Italy is/was in Calabria so in the far South - not the central region.

I agree that it's getting late in the season to expect a swarm to happen but - it's not unusual to see swarms in July over here so I would suggest it's just as likely in Italy and worth the effort of putting out a bait hive.

Not wishing to contradict a Master Beekeeper but .... I'd be a bit more optimistic.

 

[Zante]

If you have the bits, it's always worth setting up a bait hive.

Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

I don't have the bits yet, but I can drive to Florence the day after tomorrow (shop's closed on Mondays) and buy a new poly nuc with frames for 25 euros, and maybe get a nuc super thrown in for an extra 20 euros (also with frames).

I was thinking of going there anyway to have a look around and start networking.

I'll probably need one or two nucs anyway once I start beekeeping properly...

 

[pargyle]

I don't have the bits yet, but I can drive to Florence the day after tomorrow (shop's closed on Mondays) and buy a new poly nuc with frames for 25 euros, and maybe get a nuc super thrown in for an extra 20 euros (also with frames).

I'll probably need one or two nucs anyway once I start beekeeping properly...

I'd go for it - what's the worst that can happen - you end up with an empty nuc ready for the swarm season next year !

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I don't have the bits yet, but I can drive to Florence the day after tomorrow (shop's closed on Mondays) and buy a new poly nuc with frames for 25 euros, and maybe get a nuc super thrown in for an extra 20 euros (also with frames).

I was thinking of going there anyway to have a look around and start networking.

I'll probably need one or two nucs anyway once I start beekeeping properly...

If your prices are correct something is askew with the soon to be defunct common marketing structure of the EU.

 

[Zante]

Hives and nucs are indeed cheaper in Italy, mainly because they're simpler and made with pine as opposed to cedar. The frames too are simpler since they don't have the fiddly bits that British frames have, and don't have grooves for the foundation.
The frames are wired rather than the foundation and the foundation is attached to the wires with heat.

 

[Fraise]

A bait hive made of brand new components is unlikely to attract a swarm. Bees seem to prefer old comb.

 

[psafloyd]

A bait hive made of brand new components is unlikely to attract a swarm. Bees seem to prefer old comb.

The swarms I have attracted have always been in old boxes, and mostly in boxes I've just cleaned up for use at the apiary.

So, they've had a scorch, whereas I've only ever had one go into one I baited with lemon grass oil.

 

[Zante]

A bait hive made of brand new components is unlikely to attract a swarm. Bees seem to prefer old comb.

I know, but I literally have nothing, so new it'll have to be.
Also, since I will pretty much abandon the hive until spring, it is also unlikely to attract wax moth.

I'll see if some good soul is willing to sell me a drawn frame...

 

[GaryB]

Sometimes brand new kit does work. Put out a new hive in June, with a few frames of foundation, in preparation for an ordered nuc arriving. Had a swarm move in within the week. It can just be luck sometimes.

 

[Zante]

To be honest I'm doing it more for the thrill than anything. I know it's unlikely I'll get a swarm, and bees are hardly expensive considering an overwintered 6 frame nuc costs about €130 from a breeder that is about an hour and a half drive away.

 

[Zante]

And the bait hive is set up.

What do you think of the position?

This is the view from that small window

 

[Angularity]

Now you're just showing off.

 

[Zante]

Yep

 

[Al-In-Italy]

I'd suggest you find some way to strap the nuc down or at least put one of those bricks outside the door on top of it.

One of the big adjustments we had to make when we moved to Italy was getting used to the fierce winds that come with little warning. If you leave the poly nuc just sitting in the window of what appears to be a very "open plan" building for several months, I think it's very likely you'll return to find it in pieces on the floor.

If I was going to leave a poly hive sitting unattended outside in Italy, I'd also scatter a few rodenticide packets around inside the building where they'll be out of the weather. It's awful how much damage mice and rats can do if they decide to investigate something they can easily gnaw through.

 

[Zante]

It does have two bricks on it, I hadn't put then on yet when I took the pics. As for the rodenticide, there are three very active cats on the premises. They have cleared the surroundings of mice, lizards, snakes and even swallows.

 

[Stiffy]

I agree that it's getting late in the season to expect a swarm to happen but - it's not unusual to see swarms in July over here so I would suggest it's just as likely in Italy and worth the effort of putting out a bait hive.

I have been picking up swarms for the last 3 weeks and fully expect them to build up sufficiently to go through winter with one of my recently mated queens. Even without a mated queen, I would still be hopeful especially that far south that they could mate and build up with a little help and do very well.
Have a try, nothing to lose and lots to gain.
S