Insulation depth

[Skyhook]

They badly need a warm hive box in spring. I know that because I have done experiments with heating.
The biggest colonies get the best advantage from heating.

Oooh, that's too interesting to let pass! Any chance of more details Finman?

 

[Adam]

Which is more likely to kill a colony of bees? A cold temperature, lots of insulation but no brood rearing. Or a warmer temperature, brood rearing and a high consumption of stores all throughout the winter?

Neither, if they each have sufficient stores for their particular over-wintering 'mode'. Being dry (correctly ventilated) is far more important.

Brooding during the winter may not cease totally, but will be very much curtailed - just a few larvae for the most part of the early winter. It must be so, as nectar is required for normal bee larva nutrition, copious amounts of pollen are required for growth of those larvae and there will not be so much water available for brood food unless the bees are flying regularly. The cluster will be slowly moving, so the bees will not be so stupid (well not normally) as to use stores at such a rate that the brood is left to chill as they move towards new stores.

The second question, I would say, is of little worth in this context. You are where you are and you make the best arrangements for the welfare of your bees for that particular area.

RAB

Oy. You jumped in with a nice answer, but I wanted to see what the poster who clearly thinks the south is in the tropics thinks.

The problem is your description of "sufficient stores". Let's assume they are limited to just a single national brood chamber. What then?

Adam

 

[chycarne]

see also my note in winter feeding but "Meanwhile, experts at the National Arboretum in Gloucestershire say Britain could be in line for a prolonged display of autumn colours. Its log books show the weather patterns this year most closely resemble those of 1929, which had vivid leaves on the trees until November". that winter was one of the coldest and snow-y-est on records...

 

[oliver90owner]

You can limit them to what you want. I run 14 x 12s for a whole set of very good reasons (in my opinion). They are not the ideal but the best compromise for me.

I might sometimes dummy out with a frame, or two, knowing (well, hoping) full well there is still plenty of space and stores and the bees will be OK with no further input from me. I sometimes wonder how some reduce their colonies to a single standard National these days. Even now I have one colony that is still a bit overflowing and another that is still on the brood with a super

I would no longer wish to over-winter on a single National standard brood box what with the OMFs, thank you very much. I have settled on a formula that works for me and have no intention of following anyone else unless a different system shows benefits to me and my bees.

Beekeeping is still very practical and not too hypothetical. Extreme examples are good for demonstration purposes - for illustrating a point under discussion for instance. Your extreme example might be winter them in a 'shallow' and feed only fondant throughout the period.
With an OMF I could predict.......

RAB

 

[madasafish]

Yes. Indeed they do. And what answer would you like to your statement?

On this occasion then I will rise to the bait....

Which is more likely to kill a colony of bees? A cold temperature, lots of insulation but no brood rearing. Or a warmer temperature, brood rearing and a high consumption of stores all throughout the winter?

If someone offered you the chance to take 10 colonies to get through the winter, and you could have any location in the UK, where would you place them? North, Middle or South?

Adam

I'm a newbie: not an expert on bees or insulation...

As for choice, I am where I am. If I was an expert with experience in all those different locations , I might be qualified to make a choice.

But I'm not. So I will not...

 

[drstitson]

I'm planning to insulate my hives with a block of polystyrene within the roof space and a custom crownboard to promote efficient air circulation. will add a temp/humidity sensor to let me know how things are doing.

 

[Finman]

.
I feed my bees in september. Then i do not touch hives until in marsh. If hive is dead, it is dead.

After cleansign flight snow winter continues one month.

So. I have no winter feeding. The winter food is enough for 7 months.


If adam is right that cold stops brooding, it should happen in my hives.
In april we often have - 6c and nothign happens to brooding.

I have warm hives and night temp has been about 10c and brooding is almost finish. In most hives it is totally stopped and brood have all emerged.

Our trees have turned yellow here.

 

[drstitson]

Finman

ok - it isn't the cold per se that inhibits brooding (allowing for genetic differences between bees suited to different areas) but you agree that in temperate/northern latitudes bees naturally effectively cease brooding altogether in autumn (the brood nadir) ready for the winter but then get going again during the winter (anytime from december onwards), accelerating into spring ready for the early summer peak (brood zenith).

presumably low brood density influences physiology of the workers to maintain the winter bee programme in the same way that queenlessness does?

BTW you say you don't touch your hives until march - so how do you know what is happening broodwise dec-jan time????

 

[drstitson]

roof insulation

I'm only going to insulate roof (to raise crownboard temperature enough to prevent/reduce condensation above the cluster BUT crownboard will be designed to help channel convection currents NOT the chimney type ventilation encourage by some using solid sealed crownboards containing polystyrene help a few mm proud of the top of the brood box.