Instrumental Insemination price please

[For want of a better word]

An also these chaps for a remote micro syringe to give you a controlled dose of 8ul of semen.
.coleparmer.co.uk/Product/Gilmont_GS_1200_Micrometer_Syringe_2_0_mL/OU-07844-00

The one problem I have is finding a supplier of Gentamycin, my vet charges a fortune for it!

I may try sterile filtered saline solution, as I am not too keen on introducing antibiotics, however this is what is common practice in New Zealand.

 

[For want of a better word]

I'm a bit intrigued here.
Most bee keepers in Wales seem to claim their bees are native black bees. If so, why the need for II and trying to get back to near native?

Genetically, at least, I would have thought with all the crossovers etc "getting back" is near to impossible, perhaps that why you said near?

Bit misleading as the AI work has been on New Zealand Ligurian bees to attempt to get rid of the Carniolian influence.

The Cornish dime of black bees ( 2 so far identified with 12 microsattelite nuclear DNA typing) seems to be as different from each other as they are from the samples provided from apiaries in Pembroke and the Gower.

AI is going to be used to produce queens with known low levels of introgression, my mating with drones from similar stock, but not closely related to the queen.

Very difficult to get a constantly pure " open" mating when other beekeeperers insist on allowing their imported bobbyknocker drones to stray everywhere!

Yeghes da

 

[dano41]

icanhopit would it be possible to give a break down of what you payed for your II equipment?

 

[For want of a better word]

icanhopit would it be possible to give a break down of what you payed for your II equipment?

No way !
SWMBO may see it!!!

Stereo scope from Jolly... around 160
around the same for hooks and queenholder and insemination needle from Abelo
80 for CO2 system.
I use magnetic holders for instruments, mounted with pin drill holders, and other bits I have manufactured myself, sit on a mild steel gauge (500 x 300 x 6mm) plate
I have yet to try the new remote micro syringe, but can be done with a simple long glass 0.05ml syringe ( insulin type) if you can find one.

My keyboard has dumped the pound symbol !


May try a pair of micro grips instead of a sting hook, but I think I will have to get hold of some of my mother's Parkinson's pills first!!!

Yeghes da

 

[dano41]

icanhopit thank you for the reply been working on making II stuff for a couple of years good to know there are other people making their own.When I looked at making it originally two things struck me straight away two to three hundred pounds for cold light wasn't happening for me so came up with using two led flexible usb computer lights plugged into two iphone charger units total price well under a tenner,if you want to push the boat out Ikea do a flexible led reading light similar size which costs around £16.The second thing for me was that the sting hook was way smaller than anything I had ever tried to make but with great encouragement,help and testing from Hivemaker I ended up taking it a step further and making a ruby sting hook compared to that making the insemination tool was a doddle.

 

[For want of a better word]

Are you making Ruby sting hooks?
I did attempt at drilling the tiny ? .04mm hole with some micro drills plus a jewelers drill, my hands are now just not steady enough... maybe 30 years ago!

I am going to attempt using the micro clamp

I bought a LED lamp from Lidl a couple of weeks back for a couple of ££ very bright with a screw table mount, will be ideal for working on the drones

I really regret selling on my watchmakers lathe, but when I moved from London to the West Country I could not see a use for it!!!
I have been looking at making some insemination pipettes using the induction coil heater as on Dave Cushman's site... when time allows

Would be great to see some other beekeepers attempting AI as it seems it is a way to short circuit breeding problems to improve your bees
Yeghes da

 

[REDWOOD]

Why all this work and effort to get back to native bees, I really don't see the point unless you are an entomologist, or is it man's curiosity, which may kill the cat.
Next thing we will be trying to bring back the woolly mammoth and Neanderthal man.
What has gone has gone, we should be looking forward to breeding bees with more tolerance to diseases and pests.

 

[Stiffy]

Eletism theres a small but very vocal collection who are pushing their views. Its a good job that there are breeders who know what they are doing and breeding some very nice queens, trouble is most are not in UK.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[For want of a better word]

Seems there is a lot of emotional nonsense about our native bees and their "purity".

Religion with its Holy Grails and "we are the righteous".. "they are not", etc etc seems to have many parallels!

I remember the Billy Colony monologue about when fleeing religious intolerance the Calvinists landed in New Zealand on a wonderful sub tropical beach with wild fruit growing everywhere, a fresh water stream and good anchorage.... they immediately set sail further south....

Caught in a storm the sought shelter on a wind swept shoreline with nothing but scrub bushes and the cold rain coming in sideways.... This will do!

As for bringing back Woolly Mammoths, surely they went extinct?
Neanderthal man... I sometimes wonder if his gene line was continued in those who poo poo anyone who would deign to have other views from their own, and often then have to run the gauntlet by being dubbed as elitists, nutters, zealots, n'ere-do wells, vocal minority groups etc etc etc?

Yeghes da

 

[For want of a better word]

Why all this work and effort to get back to native bees, I really don't see the point unless you are an entomologist, or is it man's curiosity, which may kill the cat.
Next thing we will be trying to bring back the woolly mammoth and Neanderthal man.
What has gone has gone, we should be looking forward to breeding bees with more tolerance to diseases and pests.

did you mean...
What has gone has gone, we should be looking forward to is beekeepers with more tolerance to diseases and pests?

Yeghes da

 

[For want of a better word]

Eletism theres a small but very vocal collection who are pushing their views. Its a good job that there are breeders who know what they are doing and breeding some very nice queens, trouble is most are not in UK.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Simon our RBI gave an interesting talk to my local Association about the Defra bee inspectors visit to Denmark last year. The Danes were certainly very vocal about there breeding programs for hybridising honeybees, which included AI in their toolbox of techniques, but seemed to be struggling to maintain a stock line of very nice queens ( If you really like that sort of thing)
However I did not get the impression they were being "Elitist" over their work... passionate maybe?

Yeghes da

 

[dano41]

"Are you making Ruby sting hooks?"
No but I can make them.The hole for the ordinary sting hook is grand at 0.20 mm make your pop mark with a darning needle or denim needle for a sowing machine and use a drill with a 4mm stem trying to drill with a 0.20 mm stem is really tricky.
The reason for II for me is that were I live the weather for mating is terrible.

 

[Hivemaker.]

No but I can make them.

And very well made they are too.

 

[Thymallus]

Bit misleading as the AI work has been on New Zealand Ligurian bees to attempt to get rid of the Carniolian influence.

Would that be loosely interpreted as trying to get gentle fecund bees without the swarming tendency?
I saw one New Zealand breeder who is attempting to do something similar. I think he was using a combination of isolated mating + II but was only using drones from Carniolan colonies that hadn't swarmed in 3 years and crossing onto Italain, not sure if it was Ligurian though.

 

[Thymallus]

Apart from the microscope what is the price of all other equipment needed.

Having looked into setting up II myself, and deciding life was too short. I think you need to be extremely dedicated and rich (or very good at making things) with more time and hives on your hands than the average joe.
I figure twilight matings and/or trying to find isolated mating sites are the way to go for my requirements. I live on the edge of the North Yorks moors. Plenty of hidden dales and valleys around to test out.

 

[For want of a better word]

I am not rich!
Time... I only got out to my yacht last year for basic maintenance and to check mooring lines!

I was trained at the BBC in instrument making after 7 years of hard study as a medical lab tech for the NHS!
So I can make stuff!

The new Zealand bees I have were Italian in origin.. had been in the Antipodes for 100 years or so before being brought back to S Devon by a beekeeper, who line bred them and sold me a couple of nucs. I have since been able to continue the line, with occasional queen and swarm of the same ( from original S Devon area) to bolster the genetics.
I think the New Zealanders ( and most of the hybridisers) are seeking hybrid vigor, that seems not to be sustainable without constant meddling!

Very few places in the UK are truly "isolated" it seems, when you look how far a queen can fly and drones seem to fly even further... equivalent to one of us sailing a small boat to America just on the chance of mating!

Anything you can do to improve your bees without importing is wortwhile

Yeghes da


NZd's...
I do have problems with them when they back cross with Carniolians, the hybrids are not nice bees, usually prolific in build up and can produce a big honey crop OR if one is not quick enough will eat the lot!

 

[Thymallus]

Big GRIN>>>>> Fraid I only have a 12foot second hand dinghy....

The interesting thing for isolated matings is not so much the distance queens or drones fly but the drone congregation areas, which appear to be fairly static. Local topography has a big influence. I live at the base of an 900 ft escarpment which seems to act as a barrier (deterrent) to bees. I never sees honey bees working the flora on the top, yet it's 1/2 a mile bee flight. Follow that up with a few isolated non roaded valleys there is a chance of finding one. I shall try a few sites out this season, assuming I have some excess queens to play around with.

Interested in the Linguista strain, is this the tan coloured Italian bee the Br.Adam talked about?

 

[For want of a better word]

My NZ are fairly yellow with a darker tan band

Best location for a mating apiary seems to be just as you describe, at the base of a wooded escarpment or in a deep valley, with a warmer microclimate, but not a frost pocket.

 

[B+.]

I live at the base of an 900 ft escarpment which seems to act as a barrier (deterrent) to bees. I never sees honey bees working the flora on the top, yet it's 1/2 a mile bee flight. Follow that up with a few isolated non roaded valleys there is a chance of finding one. I shall try a few sites out this season, assuming I have some excess queens to play around with.

I think you may find a difference between worker foraging behaviour and drone mating behaviour.

What I mean is; I don't think 900 feet and a 1/2 mile flying distance will present much of a challenge to drones. I've seen reports of drones flying 6km over a 1400m mountain to a congregational area where they mated with queens fom a valley mating apiary which was a further 3 km away (H. Ruttner, "New investigations of the flight course of drones in the alps" p31-33 in Controlled mating and selection of the honey bee (Apimondia) International symposium Lunz am see, Austria, 1972).

 

[Thymallus]

Which is why I intend to test a few potential sites and see what happens. Nothing like trying something out. If it works, great, if not, such is life.