Import of NZ bees into UK

[tonybloke]

good luck with finding your missing person Murray, hope it all works out OK.

 

[Into the lions den]

Just back in briefly.

Police all over the place, the guy has done this before (not while with us), and it took two months to find him, he is a survival expert who did 8 yrs in the military. He is a gentle very safe guy, not any risk to anyone, and is likely holed up in a forest somewhere living off the land trying to deal with his internal demons. Very good and loyal worker liked by all of us and we are all worried. His brother is one of my lead beekeepers.

Full blown police missing person inquiry going on and have been out with the tracking dog handler this afternoon. Nothing found so far, but this could go on for some days.

Thank you for your expressions of support.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

What's so wide of the mark about the comment? Seems to me one of the principal objections to these imports, aside from the biosecurity aspects inherent in their importation, is their species, their genes, the fact that they are outsiders. A couple of dozen pages back the concern was that their "NZ genes" would pollute Ron Hoskins' mating stocks. The observation that they would simply replace other commercially-managed stocks on the same site and hence provide the same quantity of background 'noise' in mating terms was rebuffed precisely because of their unwanted "NZ genes".

Conservation of species takes an almost diametrically opposite view to that taken regarding people & society. The concept that a species or race has a right to live in an area, and that other incoming species should be controlled or expelled is commonplace in conservation. Can we not be grown up enough about this to acknowledge that, or are we simply trusting knee-jerk responses and politically correct arguments to steer us through?

I'm sorry but can we drop this facile argument? Bees are livestock, humans are humans. It's very very simple. nTo try to draw a comparison between the two is degrading and infantile (and it's not the first time you've done it in this debate either).
And, for the record, as you don't seem to know, humans beings or all colours are the SAME species!!

 

[TBRNoTB]

We'd better get back to the original dialogue Pete, or someone will be tamping at the bit! but then again that could involve riding crops! and we know where that can take us.......
TB

or even champing!

 

[Poly Hive]

Over the fences and far away or did you mean something darker...lol

PH (innocent mind honest?)

 

[TBRNoTB]

Over the fences and far away or did you mean something darker...lol

PH (innocent mind honest?)

I know its a bit off track PH, bit of a tea break really. It gets a bit heavy after 81 games, sorry, pages.

 

[Richard Bache]

I'm sorry but can we drop this facile argument? Bees are livestock, humans are humans. It's very very simple. nTo try to draw a comparison between the two is degrading and infantile

Is it really? What makes you think that you are superior or more deserving than other lifeforms on this planet? Are you not just showing signs of the selfish disregard to the natural world by thinking we are somehow above the world which we depend upon?

And, for the record, as you don't seem to know, humans beings or all colours are the SAME species!!

So are the honeybees that are present in this country...

 

[Norton]

Species are natural divisions and are fixed by nature. They can only be changed by the process of evolution.
Subspecies or races are a fluid division recognised by humans alone.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Is it really? What makes you think that you are superior or more deserving than other lifeforms on this planet? Are you not just showing signs of the selfish disregard to the natural world by thinking we are somehow above the world which we depend upon?



So are the honeybees that are present in this country...

I'm not sure what you mean Richard - I agree with your sentiments and think you may have misunderstood my post.
My point is that just because humans are afforded certain rights and priviledges it does not follow that bees will receive the same. What other rights should we confer upon bees? The right to freedom? The right to life?
Saying that imports of bees should be controlled does not make one a racist!!

Also, there are plenty of examples of how animal imports are effectively controlled or prevented. I can't go out and buy an elephant and stick it in my back garden. I also can't buy american bees. Why is it so impossible to tighten the controls on other bee imports?

And, finally, DanBee seems to think that humans have the right to move around the globe as they please. Well, there are plenty of restrictions - we refuse entry to the UK everyday. I'm willing to bet that it's harder for a human from New Zealand to settle in the UK than it is a for a queen!

My simple point was that the import of bees can be controlled because that's what we do as humans - we regulate and control our own activities. But just because we may not want to import certain species for disease risks or whatever doesn't mean that we all of a sudden turn into some kind of nazi maniacs.

 

[TBRNoTB]

I'm not sure what you mean Richard - I agree with your sentiments and think you may have misunderstood my post.
My point is that just because humans are afforded certain rights and priviledges it does not follow that bees will receive the same. What other rights should we confer upon bees? The right to freedom? The right to life?
Saying that imports of bees should be controlled does not make one a racist!!


My simple point was that the import of bees can be controlled because that's what we do as humans - we regulate and control our own activities. But just because we may not want to import certain species for disease risks or whatever doesn't mean that we all of a sudden turn into some kind of nazi maniacs.

Now we are really getting off track, riding crops are one thing but are we now into F1?

 

[RoseCottage]

and I did my best to bring the themes and issues of the thread back into focus...

 

[Hombre]

I'm sorry but can we drop this facile argument?
. . .
And, for the record, as you don't seem to know, humans beings or all colours are the SAME species!!

#729 Bee-Key-Pur 09.36
will you be turning your efforts to keeping out people of colour?

#731 Greatbritishhoney
I'm sorry but comments like that are not helpful. Think before you type.

#732 Tom Bick 09.56
Quite agree gbh mo place for comments like that . . .

#735 Greatbritishhoney 10.58
. . . Your ludicrous comments implying racism don't add to the debate.​

As there is a bit of a hiatus in the thread, I'll take this opportunity to make a comment.

Bee-Key-Pur was accused of making a comment that was not helpful and advised to think before typing. You further suggested that he made ludicrous comments implying racism. Correct me only if I'm wrong Greatbritishhoney.

Where in point of fact Bee-Key-Pur asked a question, which you did not seek to answer.
Now you want to duck out of an argument that was largely manufactured by yourself and doubtless designed to make you feel or look somewhat superior in the process.

When you accuse me of taking the thread off track, look at your own blatant advertising within the thread - and no I'm not going to trawl 80+ pages to show you the error of your ways.

I think the words you might like to think about are, "Sorry Bee-Key-Pur, I got that one wrong". Somehow I doubt that you would consider it though.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

#729 Bee-Key-Pur 09.36
will you be turning your efforts to keeping out people of colour?

#731 Greatbritishhoney
I'm sorry but comments like that are not helpful. Think before you type.

#732 Tom Bick 09.56
Quite agree gbh mo place for comments like that . . .

#735 Greatbritishhoney 10.58
. . . Your ludicrous comments implying racism don't add to the debate.​

As there is a bit of a hiatus in the thread, I'll take this opportunity to make a comment.

Bee-Key-Pur was accused of making a comment that was not helpful and advised to think before typing. You further suggested that he made ludicrous comments implying racism. Correct me only if I'm wrong Greatbritishhoney.

Where in point of fact Bee-Key-Pur asked a question, which you did not seek to answer.
Now you want to duck out of an argument that was largely manufactured by yourself and doubtless designed to make you feel or look somewhat superior in the process.

When you accuse me of taking the thread off track, look at your own blatant advertising within the thread - and no I'm not going to trawl 80+ pages to show you the error of your ways.

I think the words you might like to think about are, "Sorry Bee-Key-Pur, I got that one wrong". Somehow I doubt that you would consider it though.

OK, it was a question by BeeKeyPur but I suspect it was thrown in to cause a bit of mischief at the very least.
So, to answer his question: No, it does not follow that asking for controls on bee imports then leads to controls on the movement of human beings. And to suggest that I, or anyone else may think is deeply insulting.
I seem to remember that there was a lot of teddy throwing when other peoples ethics were questioned. Shall I start bellowing "facts or retraction"???

As for blatant advertising - I have no idea what you mean. I am now trying to sell honey to beekeepers????

And, as for getting back on track - yes, please do. I was not the one who introduced this tangent, just responsded to what I thought was a rather cheap insult.

 

[dilys]

..just responded to what I thought was a rather cheap insult.

It certainly was and the refuge of those that have no worthwhile points to make. I am rather surprised that admin did not step in at the point where accusations of racism came in.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

It certainly was and the refuge of those that have no worthwhile points to make. I am rather surprised that admin did not step in at the point where accusations of racism came in.

Thanks Dilys. Yes, I thought it was a clear infringements of the rules..."do not bait others into fighting". I thought it was an inflamatory question and a clear case of trolling.

 

[johna]

Surely Admin it's time to tie a knot in this thread.All the ramblings and personal snipings going on as well as the theme going round and round or, going completely off subject is getting boring and has very little to do with beekeeping as such.Too much airing of "hobby horses" to my liking.

 

[RoseCottage]

The only down side would be that ITLD could not round off the thread with the update that is coming...which would be very pertinent to the thread.
Sam

 

[BobH1]

Surely Admin it's time to tie a knot in this thread.

 

[gavin]

???

It's been the best ever thread on this forum. Although folk wander off at tangents there might be more to come on the main topic. If folk are bored with it why not just stop reading it? You don't have to. There is no need to close it. Many are now waiting with bated breath to find out what happened to Murray's hired help and what these behind the scenes things are going on further south.

Besides, how could it get to 100 pages if you close it?

Gavin

 

[oliver90owner]

Anyone with minimal input to the thread should keep out now, is my view. Being bored is easily avoided - just don't click on this thread. Simple, really - or perhaps is it 'really simple'?