Import of NZ bees into UK

[picton farm]

I just had to check i was on the right forum.......

 

[TBRNoTB]

You could be right TBRNoTB....there does seem to be something fishy going on,not quite got the grasp of it yet.

We'd better get back to the original dialogue Pete, or someone will be tamping at the bit! but then again that could involve riding crops! and we know where that can take us.......
TB

 

[BKF Admin]

Has this thread finished ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Has this thread finished ?

Just metamorphosized.

 

[tonybloke]

surely it can carry on 'til 100pages is reached? LOL

 

[RoseCottage]

I don't believe it is over just yet...

if one was wondering where the progress was ... things are apparently happening in the background according to ITLD and I believe others are preparing too...

Perhaps a gentle diversion is in order before debate begins again...a comfort break if you like.

Sam

 

[Norton]

The question is - what is more aggressive - the bees or the beekeepers?
Just came back from the bees in Crete to see that you are all having a wonderful time playing verbal tennis.
Best regards
Norton.
"Time is honey"

 

[Somerford]

I don't believe it is over just yet...

if one was wondering where the progress was ... things are apparently happening in the background according to ITLD and I believe others are preparing too...

Perhaps a gentle diversion is in order before debate begins again...a comfort break if you like.

Sam

Yes - I had noticed his repeat comments that something was brewing...not sure if they know how to make the cuppa as it's a long time coming !

All I am obliged (allowed) to tell you is that a number of prominent individuals have broken cover on the 'against' side and are making their prescence felt.

must dash - entertaining friends for lunch....

S

 

[Tom Bick]

We are converting everything, supers and deeps over. makes replacement so fast and easy, but of course it is much more work at the outset.

Off out now for the night, swimming and gym then, will not be back till morning, so if anything crops up on here I will not be around to answer it.

Thanks for the reply regarding the conversion from foundation to just wire in the frames its interesting as I have mentioned this to people as something I want to do and have been looked at somewhat strange.

But tell me given what I have read or at least understood to be the case and you must be using foundation at least in the BB on the hives at the coop farm at Down Ampney as I understand you intend to try and control the amount of drones in the area, or is it possible to do this in other ways.

 

[Into the lions den]

Thanks for the reply regarding the conversion from foundation to just wire in the frames its interesting as I have mentioned this to people as something I want to do and have been looked at somewhat strange.

But tell me given what I have read or at least understood to be the case and you must be using foundation at least in the BB on the hives at the coop farm at Down Ampney as I understand you intend to try and control the amount of drones in the area, or is it possible to do this in other ways.

Sorry, I think you get me wrong. Yes, we wire the frames with highly tensioned food grade stainless steel wire, but then we use unwired foundation (also from NZ btw to ensure EFB freedom) embedded onto the wires as well. It is rapid and very easy. If you are ever in the area of Down Ampney, or Hereford, or even up here in perthshire btw, feel free to drop in and I, or one of my staff, will show you how to do it, including the technique for getting them really tight using a wiring board you could make yourself. Really dead easy and many of the bigger outfits work this way, and makes comb renewal so much quicker and cheaper. (wired foundation is not really all that strong and considerably dearer.)

 

[BKF Admin]

then we use unwired foundation
(also from NZ btw to ensure EFB freedom)

Are you saying English foundation has a risk of transmitting EFB?

 

[Into the lions den]

Yes - I had noticed his repeat comments that something was brewing...not sure if they know how to make the cuppa as it's a long time coming !
All I am obliged (allowed) to tell you is that a number of prominent individuals have broken cover on the 'against' side and are making their prescence felt.
S

Something is indeed brewing, but what is awaited is a response from someone involved.......on your side. Silence so far.

Yes big names are getting involved, and I see you are filtering the info yet again as you have with the facebook set up. Big names are indeed involved, but on both sides. Yet again, no single concensus.

You might consider it odd given your portrayal of unanimity against the scheme, but associations from all over the area are starting to approach for visits, either as outings or as a speaker at their meetings, and some big players indeed are coming to see the unit, but after it has been set up.

 

[Norton]

Re foundation.
What Murray is saying is that as the disease situation in NZ is much better than in the UK that the foundation from there is regarded as being free from possible spore contamination, whereas in the UK who knows the history of the wax being sold commercially. One of my friends in Germany goes to the foundation manufacturer with his wax and sits there while it is milled, just to make sure that it is his wax that is being used and not someone else's.

 

[Into the lions den]

Are you saying English foundation has a risk of transmitting EFB?

The risk is vanishingly small, if indeed anything at all. The choice is almost a political one, to be SEEN to be doing everything to avoid disease transmission. We use the same NZ foundation in the Scottish Co-op unit, but happily use UK foundation, Peter Kembles, mostly from our own wax, in our home unit.

We have almost all bases covered, in fact thought all were covered until the Ron Hoskins thing caught me out of leftfield.

If anyone has asked such a question, we were sourcing the foundation from a guaranteed EFB free provenance. (NZ has no EFB) Not only that, also using only wax from a single designated bee unit with no history of AFB.

The Ron issue apart, no-one has yet thrown us a curve ball asking anything that had not already been thought about.

 

[mbc]

But tell me given what I have read or at least understood to be the case and you must be using foundation at least in the BB on the hives at the coop farm at Down Ampney as I understand you intend to try and control the amount of drones in the area, or is it possible to do this in other ways.

I think youve got the wrong end of the stick about control of drones Tom, it was just that the packages used to set up these colonies were to be screened of drones .( AFAIK )

 

[Into the lions den]

I think youve got the wrong end of the stick about control of drones Tom, it was just that the packages used to set up these colonies were to be screened of drones .( AFAIK )

Correct. Sorry, should have been more explicit. i thought this was just a question relating to the amount of wild drone comb that would exist in a situation where the bees were allowed to draw their own comb in wire only rames, and that the foundation answer would have aken care of that.

 

[RoseCottage]

ITLD,

I am quite sure that what you do is extremely professional and that with your years of experience and skills you have thought of all (well as you say apart from Ron's initiative) the key issues and technical challenges.

I have no doubt that there is a great deal to learn from your farming experiences - I have 2 hives for 2 years = small amount of direct handling, you have thousands of hives and many years = hundreds of years of direct handling.

It would be great to see a little video of your frame wiring approach (many of us cannot sadly make it over to your locations).

However, there are still some core issues that we currently agree to disagree on:

The ethics of imports and their potential impact on established colonies of localised bees:
Biosecurity is a valid concern and developing an effective set of mitigations is something that comes in a variety of ways - public bodies and legislation, public education initiatives (including the use of gold standard example initiatives - oh if this could be one of them, and providing individuals and organisations with the tools to avoid imports). When the national bodies are telling the beekeeping community and the public to avoid imports, trying to show leadership and give guidance in terms of Biosecurity it will not sit well for the Co-Op to actively be importing bees and not trying to develop a replacement strategy. It would seem odd to the masses if the commercial goals of the Co-Op conflicted strongly with multiple national bodies best practices.

The ethics of the Co-Op and the contradictory stance of their public marketing:

The Co-Op could go a long way to reconciling the use of imports to establish their honey crops by actively and financially supporting a UK Queen breeding programme. They could then reasonably claim that they were working towards a situation where imports (which they publicly recognise as one of the key threats to UK bee health) could be minimised or abandoned altogether on their farms. They, you, and the general beekeeping fraternity could all benefit from this. It won't happen overnight but it could be achieved - You can see I don't agree with those who think that only other nations can control their queen breeding populations (even those in mainland Europe who are equally congested). It is about will and I guess actually following through on their ethics.

It is great to show children how wonderful bees are, how docile and approachable they can be, and by implication how lovely the Co-Op honey would be on their food but if all these new beekeepers end up struggling against unexpected parasites, diseases, pathogens, etc it is a double edged sword.

For the Co-Op to be able to demonstrate that they have engaged, understood genuine concerns, and acted to help address them in their own environment and the wider community would be a very powerful, genuine, and supported position.

The potential impact on existing, nationally important, BBKA funded, and publicly supported, initiatives such as Ron's:

Between yourself, Co-Op farms, and the executive (or delegated project manager and budget holders) I have no doubt that an effective, positive, plan can be developed to support Ron whilst achieving your business goals.


So I have no doubt that if you stay on the forum we will all benefit from your presence (I'm looking forward to it and already appreciate your comments) but even your skills don't necessarily solve all these challenges.

Support from you in terms of addressing the above will be appreciated. This dialogue is a good starting point.

An approach to the Co-Op is organised but rather than perhaps engaging straight away then it seems only reasonable (based on your comments in the last week) that a certain amount of 'listening' time should be given.

I genuinely look forward to understanding what the hints you have made on open forum lead to so that we can understand how these genuine concerns are being addressed or whether a more active engagement needs to be initiated.

All the best,
Sam

 

[Into the lions den]

May have some difficulties attending to questions on the thread today.

One of my staff has taken a bad turn (mentally) and has absconded and is thought to have gone into hiding. I am tied up with the polices missing person inquiry all afternoon and am off round the forests we keep bees in with the police dog handlers trying to find him.

 

[Poly Hive]

Sorry to hear this Murray, and good luck in finding him safe and well.

PH

 

[chycarne]

All good wishes Murray in finding them safe and well!