I feel like such a failure :-(

[PaleoPerson]

Thanks Nelletap. I made 4 different types of wasp trap according to the different recipes on here. One caught a bee....I've taken that one away. The others caught nothing, they were topped up with rain.

Hi, Had a similar dilemma and noticed that the wasps were trying harder to get into a nuc (unsuccessfully) that I was feeding syrup in.

So I made up a couple of different types of trap using sugar syrup as the main bait with a bit of strawberry jam in to dissuade the bees. It worked a treat, loads of wasps, no bees. Placement does not appear to matter as the wasps will find it anywhere. I have put traps on top of hives, by the entrance and about 15 feet away. I think I prefer the ones away from the hives as it does not draw the wasps to the hives, it draws them away.

It would appear that not all recipes work for everyone, so experiment and find a concoction that works in your apiary.

As far as shutting up a hive quickly or not even opening it at all. Do not worry about that. Sometimes that is the correct option at the time.

Good luck.

 

[Polyanwood]

Just something else about wasps....

Wasps going in the hive is very bad. It really upsets the bees and i have had nucs killed by wasps. But in my view wasps picking up dead and dying bees outside the hive is good. I am glad that the disease and varroa they may be carrying is taken far from the hive. Might not be all bad Kaz.

 

[Queens59]

Oh Karen..do you remember 'Continue or Quit?'

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6132&page=2

You supported me when I got to the stage you are at now - it is a natural progression. I think all new beeks go through the 'have I bitten off more than I can chew??' stage

You CAN do this...You HAVE done this...you WILL do this...

Any beek who says that an enormous number of arsey bees aren't frightening are either..a) so experienced that they have forgotten being a newbee...or b) Lying!

Take a deep breath tomorrow - put your kit on, then just go and watch for a bit. When the hive seems calmer - walk up, put the foam in and then just walk away and watch again. Maybe your lad who was interested could go too for moral support?

You are doing great - just because this came on the back of your scare the other day - DOES NOT make you any less of a beek...we all have days where walkiing away is the ONLY option. Good luck!!

 

[barratt_sab]

First, I think learning to use a smoker would be a good idea. Even if you don't need it, it's nice to think that you've got it just in case. In my experience, if you can light a poorly made rolly (and know how to keep it going), you can use a smoker.

Worst case, get some corrugated cardboard, cut a long strip off and roll it up. Make sure it'll fit in your (borrowed) smoker. Put a bit of tape on it to keep it rolled. Hold a lighter underneath until it's well on fire and drop it in the smoker. Pump until it looks like there's a goodly amount of smoke coming out and shut the lid. If it doesn't work first time, go around again.

Secondly, if you can persuade your boy to come along, it might help. It means you'll be more likely to talk through what you are thinking of doing before you go and what you are doing when you are there. For me, both of these help a lot - the first helps me plan, the second helps to me think through things when they don't quite go to plan. Can you borrow a suit for him?

Thirdly, don't give up now - you've come so far!

 

[newportbuzz]

dont give up you are doing fine
i find a water sprayer with a bit of sugar in a BIG help when the bees are trying to kill me. (THEY DONT FLY WHEN WET AND SUGARY)
ive had my hives 3 mounths now and they have driven me back 4 times once they got inside my veil i dropped the frame and everything looked like a boxer for a while. i lost my honey crop to a stupid mistake the hive swarmed and i left the honey on the old hive not the swarm. whoops
are you really doing so bad???
keep up the good fight and if in doubt go back tomoro they seem to always behave diferently each day

 

[Gardenbees]

You are not a failure! You're a star! Your concern for your bees despite sometimes being intimidated by them is impressive. Besides, your description of your bees is one of a thriving, normal-sounding colony that is behaving as one would expect. What's more, from your observations I'd say that they are doing quite a good job of keeping out the wasps. Don't worry too much about wasps that carry off dead bees, because the majority of these in my experience have not actually been inside the hive: they are making off with old drones, or dead workers, and basically cleaning up.

There are things you can do to reduce the scariness of loud, determined bees. I agree about the plant spray idea. I sometimes use one with a tiny bit (a drop or two) of cider vinegar, or a plain mint imperial thrown in. Use tepid or warm water. A quick spray mist can calm zizzy bees and make them less panicky, probably because the slight minty or cidery scent masks their alarm pheromones. It's very easy to handle and doesn't "die" on you when you need it!

If you have a typical UK hive with "bottom bee space", try getting a square of jute (sacking) if you don't already have one. Maisemore & one or two other suppliers sell them for about £3. Lay this over the bars, and when you take the top off to check the bees, just peel back one edge at a time. It takes some of the trauma out of it, as you won't have quite so much brace comb to disturb, and most of the bees won't be exposed when you take the crown board off. Plus, it keeps some of the warmth in. If you cut it in half, you can access the middle frames without peeling so much of the edges up... and if you want access to a feeding on top of the bars, you can cut a hole in the middle for it. I'd take it off in winter due to air circulation needs, but at this time of year it's very useful.

It doesn't do to disturb bees too much, but I occasionally indulge myself by just going and having a quiet look at them on a really nice, warm mid-day when they're at their happiest and there isn't anything drastic to do to them. They really are a joy to experience when they're at their most content, and most of the more powerful fliers will be off foraging so you'll get the best view of nice house bees pottering about on the frames, purring quietly and doing their thing. On such days there aren't any treatments, feed or other things to worry about, and you have time to be extra slow and gentle with the hive and the frames.

NB. if you invest in a "hanging" castellated style mouse guard, one edge has a row of entrance holes, the other edge just has a few holes. You can simply slide the guard into place whenever you want to protect the entrance, and turn it upside down to reduce the number of entrance holes still further. They fit to the sides of the box, not the floor. Th@rnes do one for about£3.50 but I'm sure other suppliers have them too.

I'm sure you'll find many opportunities to enjoy your bees! This is a worrying time of year for them, so they're bound to be a bit snippy with you. Bear with them and come next spring you'll hopefully get a chance to share the good times again!

 

[ghostman11]

while my knowledge of bees is zero i do know alot about animals, and personaly i think what you did on instict by walking away actualy shows your a natural to work with animals! from much experiance with other animals i can tell you that the worse thing ever is the person that dosnt know when to walk away!! many many accidents happen on farms with livestock because the people tending them overide there instinct when it tells them to walk away!!

personaly i think you did the right thing, and it shows great promise for the future

 

[keithgrimes]

WE all get intimidated at times. Angry bees can be very very scary, regardless how experienced the beekeeper is. Closing everything up and walking away is EXACTLY the right thing to do. Well done.

 

[smithhive]

Yes, stick at it. Your story has persuaded me to finally post on here. I,very occasionally, retreat from a stroppy stock and that's after 35 years as a semi-commercial beefarmer (160 hives). HOWEVER, I am concerned about this current fad for not using a smoker. Not only does smoke help control bees during inspection but also, and much more importantly, its use means they are more amenable after you leave and therefore less likely to sting innocents who pass by later.

25 years ago I was helping a local builder with an extension to a house belonging to an amateur beekeeper. As this beeman was about to inspect his 4 hives he told me that I was wrong to use a smoker on my bees and all that was needed was a small water sprayer. He cracked open the supers on the first hive, some 50 yards from us, and within 20 seconds all hell broke loose. The beekeeper was sprinting away from his bees but at least he had protective clothing. Not so my 2 mates up on the scaffolding. The younger one managed to swing down like a monkey and join me in the relative safety of the garage but the older one received multiple stings as he came down the ladder.

All avoidable, with a little smoke.

 

[BERNIE]

as a newbee myself i can understand your apprehension as to undertaking the task by yourself,and the change in their behavior from what they are usually like,not so nice when the buzzing noise increases and they are in your face.put your kit on ( remember they can't get you when it's on), light the smoker, take a deep breath grit your teeth and do what you set out to do.we know you can do it, you know you can, jeeeeez you've given birth now thats hard.this is walk in the park. BET YOU DO IT TOMORROW GOOD LUCK.

 

[Firegazer]

Kaz,
if you want someone (with 2 really good astronaut beesuits!) to come up the road on Sunday (or maybe even very early Saturday), rather than have to wait until Tuesday, PM me.

I'm a beginner too, but I'm fairly confident in my suit/gloves now and I'm sure we could foam up that entrance together in a couple of minutes and be off having a cup of tea. I might even be able to bring Mrs FG - she seems to be getting calmer each time we inspect, whilst I stress about 20 things at once

I'd usually be on the side of "if they tell you to 'do one' loudly enough, they probably know best", but with your wasps attacking, I can't see that that can be true at the moment.

FG

 

[Teemore]

Hi Kaz, I'll have had my colony for 7 weeks this Saturday and thankfully the wasps have not been a problem (touch wood!!) I've seen/heard recommendations that as well as stopping up part of the entrance, another way of confusing wasps is to prop a sheet of glass or clear perspex in front of the hive entrance: the bees can figure out the clear barrier is there and make their way around it but the wasps just butt their heads up against it. As an alternative, get a leafy branch and stick that in front of the hive entrance - this will have a similar effect of confusing the wasps. Even better, use the sheet of glass and the leafy foliage!! The fact that you don't have to go into the hive or stick your hands into entrance is a bonus for you at the moment too.

Smokers are not at all hard to use - just don't over smoke and be aware that some bees do not like smoke; rather than sending them off to stuff their stomachs full of honey and thus keep them calm, it infuriates them. Also, if they are low on stores and you smoke them, they will have little honey to gorge on so they will just be mighty cheesed off at the person holding the smoker.....

Its worth noting that Langstroff (that worthy gentleman credited with "discovery" of the bee space) was keeping bees in the mid 1800's and he did not advocate the use of smoke to subdue bees. All that he used in his hive inspections was, as he describes it, a little watering pot or sprinkler with some sugared water in. Nice to know that the 'fad' of not using a smoker is now over 150 years old!!

PS - sometimes you need to use smoke but with time you get to know which hives respond to which type of management. I've been working with my Mentors hives (15) for a while now and there are 2 hives that you do not go near without a smoker when they are in an orchard.... when they are back at the home apiary they can be managed without water or smoke.

 

[user 382]

Hi Kaz,

I'm now in my 5th year of beekeeping and on occasion I still find it's best to just close up and walk away. There will be times when the girls just don't want you around (bad or threatening bad weather, when a nectar flow has finished, etc.), but you will start to recognise the signs. Anyway, as others have already said, you have to do what you feel is right.

Steve

 

[kazmcc]

Thanks everyone. I was a bit upset by it all yesterday, and thanks again Queens, you reminded me I'm certainly not the first I think if I go back at a different time and try again, things may be a whole lot different. We have smokers, but the girls have just not needed them. When we inspect, even in that wet weather one we did, they are so chilled. They just continue to come and go, not bothering us, and as soon as we put the house back together, they settle back in no time at all. This is why we haven't bothered smoking them as yet. The first hive I ever went to, while we were looking at the frames, there were bees all around us, you could see them like a cloud. Ours are nothing like that, only ever 10 - 20 bees if that in the air around us. They are good girls, perfect for a beginner like me. Looking back, they weren't even bothering me. They were noisier, a lot more active, but they didn't fly around me, there were just too many of them around the entrance, and I didn't feel comfortable touching them. I need to remove the blocks ( there are 4 small ones, two on each side ) then replace with the sponge. It's just until Tuesday, but in my mind, every day counts. As I tried to move the first block, and saw loads of bees come out with it, all they were doing was sitting on the block, having a wander. I thought....oh, I'm not too sure about this now, and had to try and push it back into place. The inevitable happened and it fell to the floor. I had to pick it up, bees and all ( although most had flown off when it fell), push it back, then scarper. I thought I was going to have a heart attack lol. So, if I could do that, and I am still sat here, then putting the sponge in isn't much different. The wasps didn't help, as I don't think I will ever get over my fear of them. Yuck, I hate them.

The plan is to have another go, and if I am still unsure, just lean a bit of shrub against the front, not blocking the actually entry hole itself, just to sheild it. The wasps flying off with the dead bees, they were bees who had lost their fight with the wasps. I didn't see many drones, fighting or on the landing entrance waiting to get in. It was just upsetting to see those horrible wasps kill my bees, then fly off with them, just darn cheeky if you ask me

Thanks for the offer Firegazer, I am going to have another shot alone. I will keep you all updated. Feeling much braver today, lol, and know where I went wrong, and what it was that freaked me. Should be ok second time around.

You are all wonderful

 

[freethorpe bees]

Stick with it Kaz - I know exactly how you feel. I still get uncontrollable shakes when I put my bee suit on and have to take several deep breaths and tell myself to get a grip. I try to work out what it is exactly that worries me but just think my brain is associating bee suits, smoker etc with one (and only one) horrible time when I opened the hive.

We can all stick with it together - support and encouragement is the best cure!

Good luck.

FB

 

[kazmcc]

Stick with it Kaz - I know exactly how you feel. I still get uncontrollable shakes when I put my bee suit on and have to take several deep breaths and tell myself to get a grip. I try to work out what it is exactly that worries me but just think my brain is associating bee suits, smoker etc with one (and only one) horrible time when I opened the hive.

We can all stick with it together - support and encouragement is the best cure!

Good luck.

FB

Thank you

 

[RoofTops]

Do the fiddling with the entrance last thing at night or ideally early in the morning. Push the sponge in with the hive tool. There will still be bees about but they will be less active, especially first thing. Leave a gap probably no wider than an inch to start with. You can always widen it later but wasps can kill a colony and it won't take them very long. You can also fashion a sort of shade over the entrance with some green plastic greenhouse shading if you can get it. The idea is to create a sort of cone over the entrance so the bees have to exit out of the bottom. The wasps in front of the hive see the bees flying but tend to go directly for the hive entrance and then hit the mesh.

 

[Firegazer]

Good stuff, go for it.

I think you should be 'firm but fair' with them. Take out the blocks, leave them on the ground or the roof - somewhere from where the guard bees can easily get back into the hive. Squidge in the foam by holding it up to the gap and pushing it in with the blunt end of the hive tool, leaving a couple of inches' gap in the middle.

Walk off for tea and cake.

Come back next day to see happy bees and grumpy wasps. Take photo, send to forum.

FG

 

[oliver90owner]

Pick your time, too.

You perhaps need to avoid the time the new foragers are orienting to the hive, but still while the foragers are out working.

Can you gently move the offending block sideways enough to fill the gap with the foam and then ease it back to near its original position?

Just very gently, gently, without any rushed movements.

Be covered such that you are confident they will not be able to sting you. That will improve your confidence no end!

I still have some really nasty tempered bees and I simply cover up so that however many might try to be they will not get me. Period. Have to wash the beesuit after visiting that little group of hives - there are so many stings embedded in it! i start with the quiet ones, which are no trouble at all and finish with the 'followers'.

If I am not suitably attired, I do sometimes just simply close up the hive and be even more protected on the next attempt. I normally tog-up for inspections but 'double togging' is necessary on a few occasions. I don't like multiple stings, and even the odd ones do swell considerably sometimes, so I am always careful.

Good luck and don't worry too much!

Regards, RAB

 

[JellyBee]

Kaz, stick with it.
I'm still a bit nervy doing my inspections alone but getting used to it.
I've pm'd you my phone number, I can get on a couple of buses if you like and go with you. I know I'm a beginner too but together I'm sure we can manage. I can bring my smoker

Good luck
Ang