How to set up for winter

[Beemum]

2 colonies, one in a BB, no super needed as there are still 4 empty frames/comb in the BB for them to fill, plus I have a saved frame of capped honey to add as stores to help get them through the winter.

Second hive I combined two colonies a couple of weeks back. Today all good, BIAS in top BB with some empty comb and a couple of undrawn frames, didn't check bottom BB as I know I need to go back in next few days once I know what to do.... One super on top that's mostly capped honey with some pollen, one poss two undrawn frames max. Heather flow about to start if weather brightens so have tentatively added another undrawn super in case they need it as I'm due to be away for a week. Or maybe they will use drawn comb elsewhere and this isn't necessary?

So, how/when do I reduce this hive down for winter (after heather flow), do I move brood frames and stores to create 1BB, gradually or all at once, or do I leave it as 2 BB? And whichever of those, do I include honey frames from super as stores, if there's room, or just leave the super on/nadired/in the middle? I've not had supers before at this time of year so don't know if they play a role over winter or do they stay temporarily whilst the bees move stores in the autumn and then come off? Winters here are long so I'll extract when I know what's left in the spring, other than a small amount for our use.

So many questions, thank you in advance for your help

 

[ericbeaumont]

BB, no super needed as there are still 4 empty frames/comb in the BB

Aim is to get these drawn & filled by the end of the summer & heather flow. This colony is not yet strong enough for winter.

BIAS in top BB with some empty comb and a couple of undrawn frames, didn't check bottom BB

Reduce to one BB with all the brood & the best pollen & honey combs.

Any good surplus combs can be given to the other colony instead of its 4 empties. Store the remains, but beware wax moth (treat with Dipel or Bruco, or sulphur). Burn bad combs.

Find out whether heather looks good or not; when you return, take off supers & treat for varroa.

leave the super on/nadired/in the middle?

Nadir, but at the same time reduce the entrance to one or two bee spaces.

Do you mean to feed them? If so, take the honey and aim to winter the colonies in single BBs.

 

[Ian123]

Whilst we can give suggestions from what you’ve described part of beekeeping is judging from what you can actually see yourself. Nothing with bees is really set in stone!!

With the single box colony at the very least I’d push empty or in drawn frames up against the brood area pushing store frames to the outside. They will be drawn/filled faster in areas with lots of bees. If…. the colony is of reasonable size and there’s some income feed/flow
I’d also put an empty or indrawn frame slap in the middle of the brood nest, you can also repeat this if bee numbers allow over the autumn. You’ll generally find this frame quickly drawn and laid in and you’re forcing an increase in bee numbers.
You’ll will nee to monitor and check… whilst you hope a heather flow will start it’s not a certainty! Feeding little and often over the next month is better than dumping litres straight on! Monitoring over the following months when others think the job was done will also pay dividends. This could simply be hefting or late season checking outer frames are full and if not again feeding and pushing them up against the remaining brood area(Certainly don’t split brood very late season)

As for the double brood I work on the basis of fit the bees to the box. You won’t do them any favours having them rattle round in a double brood when they will fit in a single. But again monitor! In my area there’s probably only 2-3 months weather dependent I can’t feed syrup if needed.
After the heather I’d remove supers pushing any brood to the bottom box then the store filled brood frames above. Again it’s a judgement call if they’ll require that second brood.
Certainly don’t bother nadiring supers

Most importantly you’ve not mentioned treatments if any are showing signs of needing it I’d get them on sooner rather than later. You’ll limit yourself with choice of treatment the later you leave it Apivar is probably your best bet after your heather flow and don’t forget a late December oxalic.

 

[Beemum]

Thank you both - as you say it’s about me working out what to do, but having your advice will really help as I’m just not confident enough yet to “know”, but it’s reassuring that I seem to be asking the right questions at least! I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a heather flow but have the makings of syrup on hand if it doesn’t happen, and will get everything else ready as well. All I need now is an Indian summer

 

[Erichalfbee]

All I need now is an Indian summer

Don't we!
Never known a nasty summer like this one....especially after a wonderful spring and great honey crop

 

[user 6228]

"You won’t do them any favours having them rattle round in a double brood"
"Reduce to one BB with all the brood & the best pollen & honey combs."

whats the reasoning? evidence? I know this is the accepted wisdom (we do it on our framed hives) but why?

 

[ericbeaumont]

whats the reasoning?

A winter nest in one box is more likely to fill that box and be in contact with stores at the box extremities.

The same sized nest, when clustered in two boxes, is less likely to be in contact with distant stores and so more likely to succumb to isolation starvation.

What is your take on thermal & humidity conservation of the two box options, Derek?

 

[Beemum]

Yay we apparently have heather in flower not far away

 

[Wilco]

Yay we apparently have heather in flower not far away

Your excitement may dim slightly when it comes to extracting the stuff should you get a surplus! Great honey though.

 

[Beemum]

Your excitement may dim slightly when it comes to extracting the stuff should you get a surplus! Great honey though.

I only had a couple of frames to extract last time - I guess they were mixed, don't know how would I tell, but it was fairly hard work...and the honey was so good!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I guess they were mixed, don't know how would I tell,

easy - you can spin them until you are sick, but precious little honey will come out

 

[Beemum]

easy - you can spin them until you are sick, but precious little honey will come out

Ah I wasn't spinning - crush and strain was hard enough!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ah I wasn't spinning - crush and strain was hard enough!

you'd have problems straining as well - unless you put it through a fruit press or wrung it in a cloth.

 

[Beemum]

you'd have problems straining as well - unless you put it through a fruit press or wrung it in a cloth.

There was at least some heather in the mix then as it was hard work - tasted superb though!

 

[Sutty]

Heather. Abbreviates to PITA!

 

[ericbeaumont]

Heather. Abbreviates to PITA!

Ling, yes, but bell extracts as usual.

If I had ling coming in and colonies were strong, I'd put on early-season extracted cut-comb supers (extract slowly and it'll be fine) and sell as whole frames or cut comb. Ross Rounds are good as well, but do need strong colonies and no option but to work them.

 

[Sutty]

I've not got a good enough appreciation of when I'll get heather to be organised enough

 

[Garry R]

Started to clear the supers and let the bees have what ever they can gather from here on. Poor summer crop after a cracking spring. Guess that's the law of averages.

 

[Beemum]

Ling, yes, but bell extracts as usual.

If I had ling coming in and colonies were strong, I'd put on early-season extracted cut-comb supers (extract slowly and it'll be fine) and sell as whole frames or cut comb. Ross Rounds are good as well, but do need strong colonies and no option but to work them.

Definitely want to try some of these at some point - maybe next year

 

[Beemum]

I've not got a good enough appreciation of when I'll get heather to be organised enough

Probably me neither but we'll see