How to get swarm to walk into hive

[Liam C Ryan]

HI All , I have seen videos of bees swarms emptied out on to a white sheet, the sheet runs up to an hive entrance, and the bees walk up the sheet into the hive. I would like to know how this works as l have caught a swarm an have them in a plastic bin with lots of twigs and leafs mixed in. Could do it late this evening.
Regards
Liam C

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

put a piece of wood on the floor, sloping up to the hive entrance as a ramp, coverr with a white sheet, dump the swarm on the sheet then use a smoker to encourage some bees up into the hive - they will smell the wax in the hive and (hopefully) then fan their nasonov pheromones down to signal the rest into the hive and up they troop

 

[alldigging]

Loads of videos.. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAFeOXOn3Fw[/ame]

 

[VEG]

No matter how many times I watch those vids it still amazes me.

 

[beekeeping4you]

...dump the swarm on the sheet then use a smoker to encourage some bees up into the hive ...and up they troop!

Hi Liam,
If you do that on this evening then you will have a good chance to see them move out again tomorrow.
There are better ways to hive a swarm.
What type of lid or cover do you have on the plastic bin?

Regards
Reiner

 

[user 6228]

HI All , I have seen videos of bees swarms emptied out on to a white sheet, the sheet runs up to an hive entrance, and the bees walk up the sheet into the hive. I would like to know how this works as l have caught a swarm an have them in a plastic bin with lots of twigs and leafs mixed in. Could do it late this evening.
Regards
Liam C

its not just for swarms there lots of times it makes sense to use a sheet.
Any time you are changing kit around and theres alot of bees to get out of boxs.
e.g. Drones above the excluder...
swapping brood boxes
swapping floors...

 

[VEG]

Hi Liam,
If you do that on this evening then you will have a good chance to see them move out again tomorrow.
There are better ways to hive a swarm.
What type of lid or cover do you have on the plastic bin?

Regards
Reiner

If you have a view then lets hear it dont just put down someone else's post and not offer your way of thinking other wise whats the point?

 

[beekeeping4you]

No matter how many times I watch those vids it still amazes me.

Hi Veg,
Did you read the comments under the video?

Personally I'm not keeping bees because I need them to 'amaze' me and watching that video was disappointing - maybe relevant for friends and family of this beekeeping couple but definitely not for more (or less) experienced beekeepers.

Regards
Reiner

(P.S. Liam said: HI All , I have seen videos of bees swarms emptied out.... and I tried to offer him an alternative method, so is it you who puts down someone else's post now?)

 

[VEG]

Yes I read the comments others posted I just dont get yours, you still haven't suggested what you would do. So would you be kind enough to enlighten us?
In the video posted what they did achieved what they wanted without hurting the bees.

 

[BeeJayBee]

HI All , I have seen videos of bees swarms emptied out on to a white sheet, the sheet runs up to an hive entrance, and the bees walk up the sheet into the hive. I would like to know how this works

Bees naturally walk upwards into a dark place, so the first scouts walk up the sheet and look through the hive entrance to see if there's a decent sized cavity behind it. They prefer, according to Seeley, a closed cavity of 40 litres (I think) - that's why solid floors are best for bait hives.

as l have caught a swarm an have them in a plastic bin with lots of twigs and leafs mixed in. Could do it late this evening.

If you haven't already done it then no, too late - it's dark and they wouldn't appreciate the disturbance.

It doesn't have to be a fancy ramp, you can put the hive on top of a piece of fabric laid on the ground and they'll still walk into it. It doesn't have to be white, but the lighter the colour the more likely you are to spot the queen.

 

[richardbees]

I used to empty the box into the top of an empty brood box then gradually allow gravity to lower frames in place.

The last three years I've always used this sheet of cloth / ski slope method and it's been foolproof.

.....I dump the bees 2/3 ft from the entrance of a bb or Nuc (with frames/foundation in place and the roof on) then quickly scoop up a loose handful and gently throw them into the entrance. No smoke or spray

I'd be surprised if this technique has ever not worked as they just seem to take to it!

TIf it's a prime swarm you can often see the Q plodding up the slope in the middle of her retinue

 

[simonrp]

Hi Liam,
If you do that on this evening then you will have a good chance to see them move out again tomorrow.
There are better ways to hive a swarm.
What type of lid or cover do you have on the plastic bin?

Regards
Reiner

So, what are these better ways then?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

HI All , I have seen videos of bees swarms emptied out on to a white sheet, the sheet runs up to an hive entrance, and the bees walk up the sheet into the hive. I would like to know how this works as l have caught a swarm an have them in a plastic bin with lots of twigs and leafs mixed in. Could do it late this evening.
Regards
Liam C

I just answered the OP's post - he didn't ask' HI All how do you install a caught swarm into a beehive'
Wally Shaw - the swarm guru from Anlgesey uses and swears by the sheet method, personally I just pour them into the hive and leave the frames settle on them but in future I shall probably use a variant of this which Wally advised as he has seen quite a few swarms abscond after being dumped in a BB and the frames then inserted - empty all the bees into an empty brood box then put another BB with frames and foundation above it, the day after remove the bottom BB as the swarm will have moved up into the top box.
Have you a better way to hive a swarm then Reiner?

 

[sunhivebee]

Bees naturally walk upwards into a dark place, so the first scouts walk up the sheet and look through the hive entrance to see if there's a decent sized cavity behind it. They prefer, according to Seeley, a closed cavity of 40 litres (I think) - that's why solid floors are best for bait hives.


If you haven't already done it then no, too late - it's dark and they wouldn't appreciate the disturbance.

It doesn't have to be a fancy ramp, you can put the hive on top of a piece of fabric laid on the ground and they'll still walk into it. It doesn't have to be white, but the lighter the colour the more likely you are to spot the queen.

Good point about the solid floor!
The white sheet/angled ramp method is, I agree, virtually foolproof. Have used it on more than a hundred occasions, very few absconders.
I would not advise the use of smoke. In fact I would not advise doing anything that might pxxs the bees off.
And it us AMAZING to see the bees flow upwards, even if you don't keep bees to amaze you, as Reiner noted for himself.
Some of us just love being amazed, and swarms walking in are great for that.

Can't wait to hear what happened to the swarm that started this thread.

 

[beekeeping4you]

Have you a better way to hive a swarm then Reiner?

Hi jenkins,
I don't know whether it's 'better', maybe it is only 'another' way to hive a swarm. We used it maybe around 400 times over more than 20 years and I cannot remember that more than one or two swarms absconded. It made our beekeeping relatively relaxed over the swarming period and we still can say that we never had a case of AFB in our area....

Yes I read the comments others posted I just dont get yours, you still haven't suggested what you would do. So would you be kind enough to enlighten us?

With delight!

So, what are these better ways then?

Hi simonrp,
It's not so much 'what', it is more about 'why'...

Now:
Get your swarm ‘out of the tree’ and into a box which is absolutely empty. This is extremely important - the box should have a mesh floor or a ventilated top screen (must be covered while taking the swarm) - otherwise it contains nothing, it simply is a container big enough for the bees to form a new swarm cluster inside.

Once you have all bees in the box, continue like this:
Keep the swarm in a cool, dark place for 3 days (72 hours) with no feeding and no comb
(Do not shake a swarm of bees from a bush into a brood box filled with frames of drawn comb - you are not doing your bees a favour!)

At #### Apiary every swarm, those of unknown origin as well as those we have seen leaving a particular hive is treated in the same manner: The swarm is kept in a swarm box with no comb or foundation and placed in a cool and dark place for three days. AFB spores, which might be present in the bees’ systems are digested within this period and are no longer infectious.

When hived on the evening of the third day the swarm has a completely new and hygienic start and can make use of the bees’ natural drive to build fresh comb after swarming.

With the help of 4 - 6 litres of thick sugar syrup (3 parts sugar - 2 parts water) a swarm of medium size should be able to draw out 10 frames of foundation within 7 to 10 days. If you find your top-feeder nearly empty after 48 hours, top up with another 2 -3 litres to keep the wax secretion of the younger swarm bees going. A big swarm often needs a second box with another 10 frames to draw out.

After finding a laying queen apply a one-shot varroa treatment before the first patch of brood is capped. The colony can now get a queen excluder on top of the brood boxes and supers with more foundation will be drawn out and filled with honey as soon as enough nectar is available.

Regards
Reiner

 

[sunhivebee]

Hi jenkins,
I don't know wether it's 'better', maybe it is only 'another' way to hive a swarm. We used it maybe around 400 times over more than 20 years and I cannot remember that more than one or two swarms absconded. It made our beekeeping relatively relaxed over the swarming period and we still can say that we never had a case of AFB in our area....




With delight!



Hi simonrp,
It's not so much 'what', it is more about 'why'...

Now:
Get your swarm ‘out of the tree’ and into a box which is absolutely empty. This is extremely important - the box should have a mesh floor or a ventilated top screen (must be covered while taking the swarm) - otherwise it contains nothing, it simply is a container big enough for the bees to form a new swarm cluster inside.

Once you have all bees in the box, continue like this:
Keep the swarm in a cool, dark place for 3 days (72 hours) with no feeding and no comb
(Do not shake a swarm of bees from a bush into a brood box filled with frames of drawn comb - you are not doing your bees a favour!)

At #### Apiary every swarm, those of unknown origin as well as those we have seen leaving a particular hive is treated in the same manner: The swarm is kept in a swarm box with no comb or foundation and placed in a cool and dark place for three days. AFB spores, which might be present in the bees’ systems are digested within this period and are no longer infectious.

When hived on the evening of the third day the swarm has a completely new and hygienic start and can make use of the bees’ natural drive to build fresh comb after swarming.

With the help of 4 - 6 litres of thick sugar syrup (3 parts sugar - 2 parts water) a swarm of medium size should be able to draw out 10 frames of foundation within 7 to 10 days. If you find your top-feeder nearly empty after 48 hours, top up with another 2 -3 litres to keep the wax secretion of the younger swarm bees going. A big swarm often needs a second box with another 10 frames to draw out.

After finding a laying queen apply a one-shot varroa treatment before the first patch of brood is capped. The colony can now get a queen excluder on top of the brood boxes and supers with more foundation will be drawn out and filled with honey as soon as enough nectar is available.

Regards
Reiner

Thank you for this. In Germany this is the favoured method; they call it "cellaring", the three days in a cool dark place. I had no idea that any AFB spores would be ingested in that period. Do you have research references for this? I would certainly adopt such methodology if AFB ever came up anywhere near here.

As for drawing out foundation, I find that swarms are pretty good at constructing their own inmpressive combs.

Have you found this method successful for casts, too? I would be nervous about keeping them confined for that period, as according to Winston (Biology of the Honeybee) they tend to not carry vast stores with them. I shall be interested to hear of your experience. Virtually nil absconding with 400 is impressive.

 

[VEG]

Thanks for the reply Reiner but you still haven't told us how you get the bees from the empty box into the chosen hive.

 

[itma]

I think AFB is a bit of a red herring here.

It isn't created by swarms.
If the disease isn't in the area, then swarms can't spread it.

My understanding was that AFB was rare, often associated with honey imports and spread more by beekeepers than by bees.

Beebase implicates swarms in the spread of EFB, but not AFB.
Just as shook swarms can 'treat' EFB, (but not AFB), so Reiner's technique would potentially be useful in reducing the spread of EFB, but I'm not so sure about its helpfulness with AFB.