How nasty is Apivar for humans?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I know there are alternatives; last year I didn't treat and got away with it. I could use a different treatment, but Apivar sounds just right for me. I haven't seen any discussions which have touched on this aspect consequent to the extreme effectiveness and persistence of the active ingredient. I'm wondering what precautions are taken by other beekeepers in order to ensure that their honey production is not contaminated with Amitraz?

Don't use the bloody stuff - simple enough.
Nothing wrong with using a thymol based treatment and it's just as effective.

 

[user 20297]

Having read Queens and amitraz residues in wax - The Apiarist as linked to by @Boston Bees I'm now certain that Apivar is a product which I would prefer not to use. But as the good Dr.'s final paragraph says and as we all know already,

"Mite management is important. Miticides are chemicals and, like other medicines, have both beneficial and detrimental effects. The beneficial effects far outweigh the detrimental ones. If you do not treat, the likelihood is that mites and viruses will kill the colony … if not immediately, then eventually."

I'll go and ask the bees what they think.

 

[Wilco]

To be honest I'd personally go for oxalic acid almost every time. Incredibly effective, naturally occurring (so is cyanide though!) and the levels used are within those naturally found in honey anyway leading to the EMA deciding it doesn't even need a MRL... Still needs to be used appropriately.

 

[Kposner]

Don't use the bloody stuff - simple enough.
Nothing wrong with using a thymol based treatment and it's just as effective.

I would love to have your recipe. I am committed to only treating my bees with essential oils, and so far so good. But recipes to do so can be hard to find online.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would love to have your recipe.

Apiguard

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Enthusiastic agremeent with @jenkinsbrynmair : I was reading the thread to the end with a view to posting similar - maybe a bit differently worded .

I just can't imagine sticking in a highly-derived toxin, which if it doesn't have resistance issues, will soon have, when there is a menu of foodstuffs that can be used. Formic acid, oxalic acid, and thymol, to name three can give a great rotation and the chance of resistance to the acids is nil. I was a late convert to formic because of reputed queen losses but we apply it at half dose with good results. MAQS, to be clear, although the pictured hive is an interesting experiment unless I killed the Q.

 

[spiderplantman]

For what it's worth (admittedly not much), I think there's something to be said for rotating different treatments on an annual basis. Even if there's no scientific basis for it, you'll at least gain experience of each type and be able to form your own informed opinion on each.

 

[North End Bees]

Re contamination of wax, as David Evans says in the above linked blog post, if you use commercial foundation, it will already be contaminated with every other beekeepers' miticides.

You can move over to foundationless frames, as quite a few beeks do. Or just accept residues as an undesirable but unavoidable side-effect.

As he says:

"The [nadired] super in the picture above will be removed early next season, before the queen starts laying in it. The super will be empty and I’ll melt the wax out in my steam wax extractor.
In a good nectar flow the bees will draw a full super of comb very quickly. Yes, they’ll use some nectar that would otherwise be used make honey, but that’s a small penalty.

And what will I do with the extracted wax?

I’ll probably trade it in for new foundation.

 

[Boston Bees]

Enthusiastic agremeent with @jenkinsbrynmair : I was reading the thread to the end with a view to posting similar - maybe a bit differently worded .

I just can't imagine sticking in a highly-derived toxin, which if it doesn't have resistance issues, will soon have, when there is a menu of foodstuffs that can be used. Formic acid, oxalic acid, and thymol, to name three can give a great rotation and the chance of resistance to the acids is nil. I was a late convert to formic because of reputed queen losses but we apply it at half dose with good results. MAQS, to be clear, although the pictured hive is an interesting experiment unless I killed the Q.

What does an ant infestation have to do with MAQS?

 

[bingevader]

They were applying the formic acid.

 

[user 20297]

I bit the bullet anyway and treated three colonies which each occupy a BS deep and one colony in a nuc-box. My better half swung the scales in favour of using the Apivar when she pointed out we deal with mites on our chickens with various treatments and then eat the eggs. So I'm no longer treatment-free as I was when I had only one colony. I will be watching the two, untreated, larger colonies which still carry shallow supers and an untreated, smaller nuc to see any differences in growth or shrinkage/loss over the coming months.

It was noticeable that the bees immediately mobbed the strips in a way which never happens when the hive tool or my fingers are near the frames. I found the built-in wedges on the strips are more than adequate and very easy and efficient to use. I've heard that some people find them awkward or not fit for purpose.

The insidious thing about these strips is they look so harmless.....unless you're a mite.

 

[Boston Bees]

I found the built-in wedges on the strips are more than adequate and very easy and efficient to use. I've heard that some people find them awkward or not fit for purpose.

They are easy to use. But they naturally force the strip to bend in the direction of one comb face and away from the other. Using toothpicks or nails allows the strip to hang perfectly vertical between two comb faces, allowing bee traffic on both sides, which is what you want

 

[bigadg]

Can someone please tell me how long to leave the strip in the hive

 

[Boston Bees]

Can someone please tell me how long to leave the strip in the hive

Minimum 6 weeks, maximum 10 weeks

I do 8 to 10 weeks

 

[bigadg]

Thanks Boston

 

[user 20297]

They are easy to use. But they naturally force the strip to bend in the direction of one comb face and away from the other. Using toothpicks or nails allows the strip to hang perfectly vertical between two comb faces, allowing bee traffic on both sides, which is what you want

Nothing is straightforward in beekeeping, is it?
As suggested previously, I've used the strips according to the instructions, which I assume to have taken all of this into account.. I found the strips are very rigid and vertical and stayed that way when secured with the tang. You're right; there will be a bigger gap over the face of the strips on one side when compared with the other. But there will still be room for bees to access the surface on both sides. After a few weeks, when I inspect them, if there is a need to move them closer to brood I'll be sure to reverse the fixing position.

Bees don't seem to like things to be loose, so I hope this way of fixing the strips will avoid them needing to propolise them or secure them using brace comb.

 

[holmbee]

I used Apivar strips last year and was very impressed by their effectiveness. I used them because my previous use of Apiguard was impacted by low temperatures. The two supers that had been nadired were completely emptied by the colony over an early part of the winter. You could always nadir supers for a short while then apply the Apivar strips.

 

[Wilco]

I would love to have your recipe. I am committed to only treating my bees with essential oils, and so far so good. But recipes to do so can be hard to find online.

Thymol is not an essential oil.

 

[thorn]

Sorry on the outside it says zero days, but inside says not when supers are present.

I emailed the manufacturers on that point two years ago. Unfortunately I can't find their reply, but it was to the effect that don't use the product when there are supers on containing honey that you propose to extract for human consumption.

 

[mbc]

Amitraz is not wax-soluble, so won’t impregnate the wax. It will be present in the stores, but I guess the theory is the bees eat this, not humans, and that by the time you’re putting more supers on, the bees will have used up all their stores, the treatment will have ceased, and any remaining amitraz will be such small concentration and/or broken down, that you probably have other things to worry about instead.



Amitraz also breaks down rapidly in sunlight, so if you want to do brood and a half and then later use the shallow for supering, store your frames in the light. Of course, that’ll encourage insects to take an interest in them, but that’s the choice you make.

Here’s some info from the NZ site (veto-pharma’s eu site is less useful)



So, given time it looks like it doesn’t persist, but if the product is giving you concerns, don’t use it.

It's my understanding that the breakdown products of amitraz are wax soluble and detectable years and years after the last use.
Before accepting that human poisoning is very uncommon its worth remembering that sperm counts in the present generation are on average 50% of what they were two generations ago, if that trend continues our grandchildren will struggle to conceive. This reduction in fertility is a general trend and hasn't been nailed down to anything specific but I'd bet my right bolock that part of the effect is caused by micro poisoning and the drip drip effect of exposure to all these man made chemicals.
Would I want my children to eat comb honey from a colony that had ever been treated with amitraz? Obviously not.