How much winter stores

[Popparand]

Reading in the BBKA mag that an (ideal) winter sized colony of 6 national frames of bees need 40 lbs of stores to last them till Spring.

What does that mean in terms of pints of syrup, and how do you take capped honey in the bb into account? Sounds a huge amount of sugar!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Reading in the BBKA mag that an (ideal) winter sized colony of 6 national frames of bees need 40 lbs of stores to last them till Spring.

What does that mean in terms of pints of syrup, and how do you take capped honey in the bb into account? Sounds a huge amount of sugar!

If you’re a beginner you can offer the bees 10 litres of heavy syrup and you won’t be far wrong. That’s 17.5 pints

Roughly what the bees need works out as 8 standard brood frames or 5 14x12

But I'm not feeding my bees anything yet, maybe not at all

 

[beeno]

Reading in the BBKA mag that an (ideal) winter sized colony of 6 national frames of bees need 40 lbs of stores to last them till Spring.

What does that mean in terms of pints of syrup, and how do you take capped honey in the bb into account? Sounds a huge amount of sugar!

You will have to learn to heft or weigh your hives. You cannot estimate in terms of pints of syrup as it depends what they do with it. If they raise winter brood on it you will need more syrup to reach the required stores level. I think it was someone on here that hefted by lifting brood box with fingers. If I can lift brood box with one finger=starvation, two fingers=need more for wintering, three fingers=too heavy to lift reached the target weight. Works for me!

 

[user 6228]

Reading in the BBKA mag that an (ideal) winter sized colony of 6 national frames of bees need 40 lbs of stores to last them till Spring.

What does that mean in terms of pints of syrup, and how do you take capped honey in the bb into account? Sounds a huge amount of sugar!

It depends on the heat losses your hives will endure and that depends on the location and weather as well as the design and materials of the hive.

 

[madasafish]

I weigh my hives using a hand held digital luggage scale.
Weight of floor +nadired shallow super +jumbo brood box (Langstroth) +CB target for October = c 40kgs.. By Spring they will be down to c 20-25kgs.. so using 15-20kgs of stores.. (33 to 44lbs) . Each hive varies.

Wooden hives with poly covers plus one poly hive.. Poly hive a little less - but not significantly. (100mm insulation in poly cover roofs).

 

[Popparand]

You will have to learn to heft or weigh your hives. You cannot estimate in terms of pints of syrup as it depends what they do with it. If they raise winter brood on it you will need more syrup to reach the required stores level. I think it was someone on here that hefted by lifting brood box with fingers. If I can lift brood box with one finger=starvation, two fingers=need more for wintering, three fingers=too heavy to lift reached the target weight. Works for me!

Is that lifting one side with one hand, Beeno?

 

[beeno]

Is that lifting one side with one hand, Beeno?

Yes. If you feel unsure you can always have a look too, as long as it is not too late in the season. I am starting feeding next week. First, I am checking that they are +Q after MAQS and feeding back some comb for them to clean. Aim to get them all back into one brood box for winter. Good luck with your winter preps.

 

[Swarm]

Crack the seal between floor and stand before hefting, I find the weight of the season tends to stick them down.

 

[Murox]

Reading in the BBKA mag that an (ideal) winter sized colony of 6 national frames of bees need 40 lbs of stores to last them till Spring.

What does that mean in terms of pints of syrup, and how do you take capped honey in the bb into account? Sounds a huge amount of sugar!

As a rough guide and depending on the area:
One national super full of honey will weigh approx. 30 lbs (13.5 kgs.) or a little more.
A national brood box full of bees, brood, and honey could weigh up to around 70 lbs (32 kgs.).

The ideal autumn colony would have brood in the centre of the lowest box flanked with frames of honey and pollen, the two outermost frames filled with honey alone. A second BB would be filled with honey.

Leave 45 - 55 lbs (more or less 20 – 25kgs) of honey as a minimum to provide a good supply of natural food and save you messing around with syrups and sugars and supplements.
Economic considerations may change your viewpoint.

 

[Popparand]

Yes. If you feel unsure you can always have a look too, as long as it is not too late in the season. I am starting feeding next week. First, I am checking that they are +Q after MAQS and feeding back some comb for them to clean. Aim to get them all back into one brood box for winter. Good luck with your winter preps.

Thanks for that beano. I'm a bit anxious because I lost my first nuc last winter, and not through lack of stores. Do you also put a super under the bb for extra stores?

Also thanks to other replies. I guess one of the issues is how far North you are.

 

[beeno]

Thanks for that beano. I'm a bit anxious because I lost my first nuc last winter, and not through lack of stores. Do you also put a super under the bb for extra stores?

Also thanks to other replies. I guess one of the issues is how far North you are.

I cannot do that, because I am on Paynes poly hives. However, you only do this if you want a super cleared by the bees moving the honey into the bb. If you are not happy that you have enough stores in the bb at the end of winter preps, then you keep a super atop where it will be nice and warm, but you must take off the QX. You must try to work out why you lost the nuc i.e. queen failure, disease - varroa is the worst enemy, or isolation starvation etc. and dummy down so as not to leave unoccupied frames. If at all possible I prefer to overwinter my colonies on one bb only. If they get a bit light in Feb/March I put fondant directly onto the top bars to safeguard against isolation starvation. It is good to be a bit anxious as a beek, because ultimately it will make you a good beek. Good luck.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You can nadir a regular wood super under a Payne’s brood

 

[Levitt53]

I cannot do that, because I am on Paynes poly hives. However, you only do this if you want a super cleared by the bees moving the honey into the bb. If you are not happy that you have enough stores in the bb at the end of winter preps, then you keep a super atop where it will be nice and warm, but you must take off the QX. You must try to work out why you lost the nuc i.e. queen failure, disease - varroa is the worst enemy, or isolation starvation etc. and dummy down so as not to leave unoccupied frames. If at all possible I prefer to overwinter my colonies on one bb only. If they get a bit light in Feb/March I put fondant directly onto the top bars to safeguard against isolation starvation. It is good to be a bit anxious as a beek, because ultimately it will make you a good beek. Good luck.

I have Payne’s polys. Just saw the lugs off the floor then you can nadire a super if you want. It’s too late to do it now but a job for spring. If you keep the lugs on them then it’s a nightmare when you come to try and separate the brood box from the floor anyway, especially with a brood box full of bees. I only want to do that once. It’s a stupid design which I assume they will change.

 

[beeno]

I have Payne’s polys. Just saw the lugs off the floor then you can nadire a super if you want. It’s too late to do it now but a job for spring. If you keep the lugs on them then it’s a nightmare when you come to try and separate the brood box from the floor anyway, especially with a brood box full of bees. I only want to do that once. It’s a stupid design which I assume they will change.

Hi Levitt53, Thanks for that tip. I actually like the lugs, never understood one box just resting on the other! I might change my mind at some point though women's prerogative.

 

[madasafish]

I gave up extracting - too much hard work- and left a super of honey under each BB. Tried weighing this morning.. Hernia time - second hive weighed over 50kgs.. started raining so I gave up.. Looks like I will not be doing much feeding

 

[enrico]

Hi Levitt53, Thanks for that tip. I actually like the lugs, never understood one box just resting on the other! I might change my mind at some point though women's prerogative.

This might make you laugh Beeno but that is the first time I realised you were a woman. Never noticed the symbol on the side.
E

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The first thing I did when I bought a Paynes Poly - before painting it - was to saw off the floor lugs. The hive has since been sold.

With regard to the advice given about having 40 lbs of stores. As DerekM has pointed out, bees in polyhives will use less stores than in a wooden hive. (The contrast will be even more noticeable if you don't insulate the roof).

 

[Hebeegeebee]

This might make you laugh Beeno but that is the first time I realised you were a woman. Never noticed the symbol on the side.
E

In this modern age, perhaps we need a 'gender fluid' symbol as well?

Related to that, if I wanted to become a non-sex (that's probably not politically correct but I will stick with it for now) how do I change that in this forum as one you have decided to be a male or female, it appears that you cannot go back to being neutral.

 

[Levitt53]

The first thing I did when I bought a Paynes Poly - before painting it - was to saw off the floor lugs. The hive has since been sold.

With regard to the advice given about having 40 lbs of stores. As DerekM has pointed out, bees in polyhives will use less stores than in a wooden hive. (The contrast will be even more noticeable if you don't insulate the roof).

Hi Hebeegeebee, can you explain what you mean by the bit in brackets?

 

[Levitt53]

Hi Levitt53, Thanks for that tip. I actually like the lugs, never understood one box just resting on the other! I might change my mind at some point though women's prerogative.

I’m all for women’s prerogative, female too. I found it nearly impossible to separate the floor from the brood box the first time I tried. Maybe you’ll have more success.