How much to sell nucs for

[Apple]

Another point..... explain to the new nuc owner that once the bees have left your premises they are totally their responsibility and even put that agreement in simple form in writing.
Put some simple instructions of how to hive the bees and FEED!!!!
Get them to call early on the day of collection so that you can show them the queen and the brood and all the bees, close up the box ( obviously not the entrance!) and write their name on it over a piece of non removable tape, send them off for a pub lunch* and get them to call back once the bees are all in.
I know of one breeder who gets nucs inspected for disease before selling...... and another who gets his wife to deal with the punters and collection because he hates the buyers propensity to kill his carefully raised charges!

Chons da

 

[Boston Bees]

OK, now, quick related survey please. If you know, how much are your local BKA charging beginners for a nuc at the end of their course?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Apis Meliffera

on a serious note though all I see is local associations trying to control the price and cost of queens and nucs to unsustainably low levels

Why ?

The elephant in the room is this - that they (members) don't like to have to pay out lots of money because they're having to do it on an almost yearly basis because their bees die mysteriously every other year. Therefore they face a cost to replace them they resent. 'Because bees were always free' - well swarms were. But not if you live in Salisbury as they charge a member a fee to get the address to collect the swarm from. What utter nonsense.

So many amateurs are loosing colonies of bees for the usual reasons - lack of varroa control, lost colonies through poor swarm management, not identifying poor brood patterns, other factors ( colony decline due to viruses, lack of stores, not managing wasps ) and I see this alot, 'I want bees but I'm actually terrified every time I open them up, haven't a clue so leave them to themselves largely. Oh can I have a new queen too ? I've been told I need to requeen as they stung the other club member last time and they are nasty bees/swarmy bees/diseased bees/wrong coloured bees/not buckfasts *delete as appropriate.

The 'big' players charge well over £250 for a nuc, some even more. They sell out every year. Are they 'local' bees ? are they imported split packages ? are they local queens ? are they Italian mated imports ? who knows. Who cares ? Certainly the buyers don't mind.

Oh and my bees are buckfasts. Are they ? YES. I was told they were from the chap I bought them from. They look like Buckfasts. Yes. They ARE Buckfasts.

I've heard it all. I've even had beekeepers telling me quite earnestly they have AMM Black bees and have had them for years.

Really ? REALLY ? How does that compute ? Your apiary of 2 hives is less than 1 mile from my apiary of 20+ and while I have some dark bees and some not so dark bees I certainly wouldn't be so cocky or confident to say the darkies are AMM.

Utter Nonsense.

To answer your question...

My bees are selected to be prolific, low disease, winter survivors, good spring building honey gatherers. This does mean they do make efforts to swarm in an average year as they need space.

Why the price ? Frames, foundation, time spent making them, feeding the nucs, time spent checking them, time spent raising the queens from my breeder colonies, losses, time spent dealing with buyers, supply and demand.

And now it seems that package imports will be a struggle or knocked on the head which will drive up the prices of packages and nucs produced in the UK in 2021 and beyond..

KR

Somerford

As you have wrote Somerford nucs need to be at a price that they should be the people that are raising there own queen's and nucs should be commended for there work.
Alot of work goes in to producing them. Maybe if there was a bit more concensus between none BKA sellers it might sper the rest on?
I hope you have had a lovely Sunday after venting .


Im not saying nowt... Ow bugger it... but I don't think I would want stock from an association but I would gladly give them queen's (virgins) even more so..
And any one local to me.
Guter tag!!!

 

[Somerford]

I know of one breeder who gets nucs inspected for disease before selling...

Chons da

I have DASH accreditation....

 

[Somerford]

I bet you’re glad to get that off your chest!✌

Why do people think it was a rant ?

It’s the facts from my experience and perspective

There’s little point in skipping around the truth

 

[Curly green finger's]

Why do people think it was a rant ?

It’s the facts from my experience and perspective

There’s little point in skipping around the truth

Ok a truthful rant.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Why do people think it was a rant ?

It’s the facts from my experience and perspective

There’s little point in skipping around the truth

I didn't see it as a rant. I saw it as a very eloquent piece on the problems with supplying nucs.

 

[colinlyne]

The thread currently running on honey pricing made me want to ask this question.

I am just a hobbyist, and tend to end up with more colonies than I want, due to splitting, swarm collecting etc. I don't sell anything that hasn't proven the ability to overwinter, but do need to get rid of a few nucs in spring. How much should I charge? The queens won't be clipped or marked, will be have no discernible pedigree (other than "sturdy local mongrel", and I would probably be looking for the buyer to provide their own box.

Also, what kind of buyers do people in a similar situation find the least hassle? Selling direct to complete newbies slightly scares me. I don't work with a local BKA, though contacting one to offer them nucs could be an option I guess - might take the hassle of direct client-interaction out of the equation ....... or it might introduce a different type of hassle?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Murox]

................snip.................on a serious note though all I see is local associations trying to control the price and cost of queens and nucs to unsustainably low levels. Why ?...........snip........................The 'big' players charge well over £250 for a nuc, some even more. They sell out every year. Are they 'local' bees ? are they imported split packages ? are they local queens ? are they Italian mated imports ? who knows. Who cares ? Certainly the buyers don't mind.
Oh and my bees are buckfasts. Are they ? YES. I was told they were from the chap I bought them from. They look like Buckfasts. Yes. They ARE Buckfasts.

I've heard it all. I've even had beekeepers telling me quite earnestly they have AMM Black bees and have had them for years...........snip..............Somerford

Very valid points. Attempting to control prices, colluding in order to improve profits and dominate the market, seems to be something that both "big players", associations and individuals all seem to do for a variety of reasons, I'm not sure if any of the reasons benefit the species or the would be purchaser. It seems that the provenance of the nucs/bees/queens is not easily verified and the liars and swindlers who inhabit the world have certainly caused huge distrust. Individuals probably feel more confident when purchasing from a recognised "big player" or a well known established smaller concern. How and who does, especially the new, buyer know who to trust and so feel more confident about buying from, to some extent regardless of price?

 

[Apple]

I have DASH accreditation....

Having DASH Accreditation means that you have the capability of checking YOUR OWN colonies for bee diseases ... but still have to call in an SBI to confirm and exterminate infected colonies ( in the case of the notifiable foul broods) and then a bit like an MOT only means colony / nuc not infected ON THE DAY OF INSPECTION ?? Shirley??

However I would like to point out that DASH accreditation is for Beefarmers and is somewhat different to a BDI disease identification day organised occasionally by BKAs for hobbyists!

 

[Nige.Coll]

This season Nuc's will probably go up with a bump.
There will be a lot that aren't available due to Brexit and quite a few have sold out already.

 

[Somerford]

Having DASH Accreditation means that you have the capability of checking YOUR OWN colonies for bee diseases ... but still have to call in an SBI to confirm and exterminate infected colonies ( in the case of the notifiable foul broods) and then a bit like an MOT only means colony / nuc not infected ON THE DAY OF INSPECTION ?? Shirley??

However I would like to point out that DASH accreditation is for Beefarmers and is somewhat different to a BDI disease identification day organised occasionally by BKAs for hobbyists!

And the difference is ??

We have the same level of training as a seasonal bee inspector, and compared with an amateur who has completed the BDI disease ID day (which I also have by the way in the past) we get to go through 100/200/300+ colonies multiple times a season and therefore are more likely to spot something and have more experience of doing so than a 1/2 hive owner who opens their hives maybe 10 times in a season..

And you point about 'having to call an SBI to notify if we discover a notifiable disease' ..... uh yes ?! that's the whole premise and remit of being DASH accredited.

What's the difference ? being DASH accredited and destroying a colony or shook swarming vs finding say EFB and calling an SBI to be informed 'we must shook swarm and scorch the box' ??

We also have lateralflow tests to check the EFB and submit to BeeBase/DEFRA too

The DASH accreditation is in my opinion far superior to that of the BDI day by a country mile. It's a two day training session, with far greater depth, study, experience and examination than a BDI day that you could attend with a hangover and not even be questioned on your knowledge gained at the end.

DASH encourages you to put into practice what you learn. DASH is also extremely helpful in identifying other viruses and ensuring the queen breeding programme thereafter if one does that is from the best provenance genetics (DWV, Chalk Brood, CBPV) and varroa infestation levels.

To be able to certify the colony is as healthy as a colony can be at point of sale is a good indicator it'll thrive - whether it does then is down to the new keeper of the bees....and as I said in my post above somewhere that is an open ended question.


If in your view DASH isn't good enough an you want 'certification' what exactly are you after and how will it be undertaken and monitored and by whom ?

KR

S

 

[sipa]

Somerford I agree entirely with everything you have said. Bees have been undervalued for years and it's about time purchasers get realistic and accept that if they want bees of quality with a good provenance then that is going to cost more than a swarm from Joe Blogs.

Imports of bees as packages or on combs is no longer available, so lot's of the "sellers" are going to be without bees to sell on. So how about supporting those of us that produce bees here in the UK and have done for years. The honey produce should cover the cost and give you a surplus in the first year... that's realy not a bad deal is it ?

Plenty of bees still available if you know where to look.

 

[Apple]

And the difference is ??

We have the same level of training as a seasonal bee inspector, and compared with an amateur who has completed the BDI disease ID day (which I also have by the way in the past) we get to go through 100/200/300+ colonies multiple times a season and therefore are more likely to spot something and have more experience of doing so than a 1/2 hive owner who opens their hives maybe 10 times in a season..

And you point about 'having to call an SBI to notify if we discover a notifiable disease' ..... uh yes ?! that's the whole premise and remit of being DASH accredited.

What's the difference ? being DASH accredited and destroying a colony or shook swarming vs finding say EFB and calling an SBI to be informed 'we must shook swarm and scorch the box' ??

We also have lateralflow tests to check the EFB and submit to BeeBase/DEFRA too

The DASH accreditation is in my opinion far superior to that of the BDI day by a country mile. It's a two day training session, with far greater depth, study, experience and examination than a BDI day that you could attend with a hangover and not even be questioned on your knowledge gained at the end.

DASH encourages you to put into practice what you learn. DASH is also extremely helpful in identifying other viruses and ensuring the queen breeding programme thereafter if one does that is from the best provenance genetics (DWV, Chalk Brood, CBPV) and varroa infestation levels.

To be able to certify the colony is as healthy as a colony can be at point of sale is a good indicator it'll thrive - whether it does then is down to the new keeper of the bees....and as I said in my post above somewhere that is an open ended question.


If in your view DASH isn't good enough an you want 'certification' what exactly are you after and how will it be undertaken and monitored and by whom ?

KR

S

KR
Re read my post.. Please.
I should have taken my DASH last season... but the COVID-19 seems to have delayed things!

Hopefully this year.

Our own SBI is encouraging me... it means he will not have the pleasure of my company (or not!) inspecting Ca. 150 colonies!

What you did not point out was that there is an audit to complete annually by the beefarmer and a status check up every three years.

The BDI bee disease day events can not compare to DASH.... but for the weekend beekeeper are a very good way to get a handle on what to look for... most will never see AFB or EFB fortunately!

Tragedy is that there was one chap doing the rounds of newbees and advising them that as he had "undertaken" a BDI bee disease day experience... he could "inspect" their bees for them and there was no need for them to bother the SBI!!!

Chons da

 

[Apple]

Somerford I agree entirely with everything you have said. Bees have been undervalued for years and it's about time purchasers get realistic and accept that if they want bees of quality with a good provenance then that is going to cost more than a swarm from Joe Blogs.

Imports of bees as packages or on combs is no longer available, so lot's of the "sellers" are going to be without bees to sell on. So how about supporting those of us that produce bees here in the UK and have done for years. The honey produce should cover the cost and give you a surplus in the first year... that's realy not a bad deal is it ?

Plenty of bees still available if you know where to look.

The "dealers" are already sniffing around.....
We can buy your surplus nucs or bees if you are looking to downsize etc etc
Do I feel a sense of PANIC???

 

[sipa]

The "dealers" are already sniffing around.....
We can buy your surplus nucs or bees if you are looking to downsize etc etc
Do I feel a sense of PANIC???

Oh yes panic a plenty !
Surveilance camera's operating at every apiary site to deter those who may sniff too close.

 

[Apple]

Oh yes panic a plenty !
Surveilance camera's operating at every apiary site to deter those who may sniff too close.

How do you deter the "sniffers" from nicking the surveillance cameras..>>>
around here they are nicking the padlocks the chains and the gates!!
Indelible paintball landmines anyone???

 

[Somerford]

KR
Re read my post.. Please.
I should have taken my DASH last season... but the Covid-19 seems to have delayed things!

Hopefully this year.

Our own SBI is encouraging me... it means he will not have the pleasure of my company (or not!) inspecting Ca. 150 colonies!

What you did not point out was that there is an audit to complete annually by the beefarmer and a status check up every three years.

The BDI bee disease day events can not compare to DASH.... but for the weekend beekeeper are a very good way to get a handle on what to look for... most will never see AFB or EFB fortunately!

Tragedy is that there was one chap doing the rounds of newbees and advising them that as he had "undertaken" a BDI bee disease day experience... he could "inspect" their bees for them and there was no need for them to bother the SBI!!!

Chons da

I think we are arguing over the same end of the rope

 

[Murox]

Somerford I agree entirely with everything you have said. Bees have been undervalued for years and it's about time purchasers get realistic and accept that if they want bees of quality with a good provenance then that is going to cost more than a swarm from Joe Blogs.

Imports of bees as packages or on combs is no longer available, so lot's of the "sellers" are going to be without bees to sell on. So how about supporting those of us that produce bees here in the UK and have done for years. The honey produce should cover the cost and give you a surplus in the first year... that's realy not a bad deal is it ?

Plenty of bees still available if you know where to look.

Yes , BUT how does Jo Public know about "those of us that produce bees here in the UK and have done for years" and probably do it perfectly well ? - Dubious social media? greedy local associations?

 

[Boston Bees]

greedy local associations?

My local one sells 6 frame nucs to beginners at £65 after their course. Which I was a bit shocked about.