How long will a colony give a virgin queen to mate?

[BMH]

I caught a swarm earlier this year.

Placed in a poly nuc with 6 frames of foundation, which they drew out in a week.

Two weeks later, no eggs.

Gave them a frame of brood - werent interested, so assumed there was still a virgin running around.

2 weeks later, still no eggs.

Another frame of brood - still not interested.

All this time I havent been able to find a queen/eggs, which is unusual as I normally find virgins pretty quickly in small nucs.

I had a spare mated queen and put that in the colony. Released after 3 days and clearly kiled.

6 weeks now and still no eggs or signs of a virgin!

Got a good mind to let them dwindle!

Next POA is to take a ready to emerge virgin, shake every single bee out and turn the queen excluder on at the front for a couple of days.

Odd one this...

 

[Beecat]

Is there any pollen in the hive? All i can think of is, you have laying workers so short on protein that they are eating the eggs.

Just a newbie guess.

 

[BMH]

Plenty of pollen, plenty of stores.

Definitely not laying workers. They pepper the cell with tens of eggs, so would have spotted them.

Weather has been perfect for mating so really unsure why its failed and why they are sticking with a duff virgin?

 

[Beefriendly]

Have very similar on a snelgrove top half, queen emerged about 6 weeks ago, perfect mating weather and still not laying and they won't draw anything on test frames. Weird....I'm now bleeding all the flying bees back into the main hive (which should be most of them by now!) and will throw the remainder out and let them find their own way home.

Had another hive where exactly the same was happening....until I looked through the supers...brood all over the place. ..now below.

 

[Beecat]

Another wild newbie speculation.... I vaguely recall reading about a problem that can occur in mating, where the newly mated queen is unable to remove the mating sign and thus cannot lay.

But it's a a very old and fuzzy memory.

 

[BMH]

Hmm, never heard of that.

What i find strange is I can never find the virgin.

Had over 10 attempts!

 

[Beecat]

I just can't leave this one alone.... such a puzzle!


Is it possible that the queen is not a virgin, but has somehow become trapped in an odd corner of the hive, unable to move?


I did some surfing and found that queen problems like yours are becoming more common. The academics are saying it's most likely the usual culprits... contaminated wax, chemical treatments. varroa and viruses. General sperm viability is down to 50% in Ontario.

Roger Patterson has been writing and speaking on the topic of all these weird queen problems that are cropping up.

 

[BMH]

She's in a nuc. I've turned it inside out.

She definitely isn't trapped

 

[jeff33]

Swarm, no brood for 6 weeks... Even if you had a queen starting to lay now it would be too late as your swarm is getting old (6 weeks life for worker bees in the summer) and you will not have enough bees to look after any brood. I would leave it dwindle.

 

[B+.]

Another wild newbie speculation.... I vaguely recall reading about a problem that can occur in mating, where the newly mated queen is unable to remove the mating sign and thus cannot lay.

But it's a a very old and fuzzy memory.

It's not only the endophallus that can cause this problem. If the queen doesn't evacuate the surplus sperm (https://youtu.be/3vPV_WeQxV8?t=3m50s) there can be a blockage too. However, normal abdominal contractions as the queen moves around the nuc should make this an unusual occurrence, particularly if there are enough workers to assist.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Swarm, no brood for 6 weeks... Even if you had a queen starting to lay now it would be too late as your swarm is getting old (6 weeks life for worker bees in the summer) and you will not have enough bees to look after any brood. I would leave it dwindle.

bees with no brood to rear live a lot longer

 

[BMH]

Swarm, no brood for 6 weeks... Even if you had a queen starting to lay now it would be too late as your swarm is getting old (6 weeks life for worker bees in the summer) and you will not have enough bees to look after any brood. I would leave it dwindle.

I can add emerging brood to equalise.

 

[BMH]

Its had two full frames of BIAS over the past 6 weeks so its now occupying all frames. 3 frames of stores and pollen, 3 emptyish frames in the middle.

 

[user 6228]

bees with no brood to rear live a lot longer

Yes, lifespan for honeybees is not a simple value

 

[Finman]

.
You could try to sieve the Queen out with excluder.

Put against entrance an excluder, and shake all bees onto ground on front of the hive.
When workers have gone on, Queen should be against excluder.

 

[BMH]

I did that very thing on the second frame of brood.

Set the entrance to queen excluder and shook out every last nook and cranny of the hive in an attempt to block her out.

If she's there she must be a complete scrub queen that is passing through the excluder

 

[jeff33]

Its had two full frames of BIAS over the past 6 weeks so its now occupying all frames. 3 frames of stores and pollen, 3 emptyish frames in the middle.

If you are adding more frames of brood that's fine that will keep them going until the queen appears....

 

[Magwat]

A couple of years ago I had a nuc that repeatedly failed to make queen cells on test frames. I did eventually find the queen - she was not much more than half the size of a worker. I only spotted her because of the way the workers were behaving towards her.

 

[SDM]

Are they keeping cells prepared and polished for laying or fling everything with nectar?

 

[Millet]

The Queen has roughly 4/5wks to mate after that it is too late, last year i had to wait 5wks before i spotted egg's, this year i have seen eggs as soon as 2wks however i am past the 5wk stage on one hive this year but the bees are polishing several brood frames so i am expecting to see eggs and hopefully capped worker brood on my next inspection.