How far should bait boxes be from a hive

[Curly green finger's]

But ... it's just

and I've had them set up a couple of miles from the apiary and caught swarms. What does that prove (apart from that someone, somewhere was not on top of their swarm control/avoidance regime)

Aye, but we can't control bees all the time no matter what we do, not all beekeepers are proactive or are inclined to be so because of one thing or another.
I had 4 swarms last season in the same area all were not from my hives they were colonys from trees or whatever, no beekeeper performing swarm prevention.

 

[user 20297]

But ... it's just personal observation - by rights it is an unproven theory ... there is little or no logic involved and unless you had control models in place it's about as scientific as dowsing ... I'm good with Mark's theory but I would not rely on it as a certainty.

and I've had them set up a couple of miles from the apiary and caught swarms. What does that prove (apart from that someone, somewhere was not on top of their swarm control/avoidance regime)

Where do you site your successful bait hives and why?

I used dowsing rods to locate the most inept beekeeper in the district, so ended up placing my bait hives next to my own beehives.

I didn't get a swarm in a bait hive because, being inept and a bee-fiddler, I spotted the swarm leaving and then caught and boxed it PDQ. For a few days prior I had seen lots of interest at a bait-hive just ten metres from the hive, which, in retrospect, I presumed were my own.

But I shall ignore what I have learned from this personal experience and that of @Curly green finger's because clearly, we are both simplistic theorists who wouldn't know one end of a magic wand from another.

 

[Erichalfbee]

James. You are over reacting. How can believing that dowsing works harm anybody?
I don’t worry whether you believe it works for me and I doubt Philip does either.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I used dowsing rods to locate the most inept beekeeper in the district, so ended up placing my bait hives next to my own beehives.

I didn't get a swarm in a bait hive because, being inept and a bee-fiddler, I spotted the swarm leaving and then caught and boxed it PDQ. For a few days prior I had seen lots of interest at a bait-hive just ten metres from the hive, which, in retrospect, I presumed were my own.

But I shall ignore what I have learned from this personal experience and that of @Curly green finger's because clearly, we are both simplistic theorists who wouldn't know one end of a magic wand from another.

You said it.

 

[user 20297]

You said it.

Someone of your standing must find hard to comprehend self-deprecation.

 

[Curly green finger's]

 

[Erichalfbee]

Someone of your standing must find hard to comprehend self-deprecation.

Oh no. I’m a champion

 

[Erichalfbee]

Have you got time to eat popcorn, Mark?

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Last question would you use an under floor entrance with a bait box?

Keep it simple. Drill a 1" ish hole in the front of the brood box and nail hardboard (use frame nails) on top and bottom so that once the swarm arrives and you have to carry the box+bees down a ladder from the wall or shed roof it's not too heavy. Or could drill entrances in an eke screwed to the bottom of the brood box. Both of these successfully caught a swarm last June.
Distance? Within 20m of my hives. Neither swarm from my hives though interest in the swarm box is a good indication that one of them is planning to leave.
. . . . . Ben

 

[JamezF]

James. You are over reacting. How can believing that dowsing works harm anybody?

Perhaps I was inadequately clear. It wasn't my intention to suggest that believing in dowsing directly harms people. I meant that teaching people to believe that activities such as dowsing work when that flies in the face of evidence gained from careful research and suggestions as to other possible and more plausible explanations may engender a situation where people can be more inclined to believe other misinformation which in turn present a greater risk to them or those they care for. You know, like believing in matchsticks under the crown board

If you encourage someone to try dowsing because you claim it works and it doesn't achieve what they wanted, they might well say "Well, it sounded like a stupid idea anyway". If they do get a positive result then they may well not question what's really going on even if it is completely inconsistent with whatever else they understand about the way the world works. The next time someone suggests they try something that on the face of it seems unlikely, their resistance to it may well be reduced because "I thought dowsing sounded daft, but it worked for me".

Particularly in modern society with social media enabling the distribution of the most ridiculous ideas, people should be questioning and testing the evidence far more, not less.

James

 

[Curly green finger's]

Have you got time to eat popcorn, Mark?

yes In between making these damn 500 frames that and paint flying everywhere.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

That dowsing is a real thing has been debunked so often it's genuinely hard to believe that anyone still gives it credit. It gives results no better than chance. Really. I know people believe it and want to believe it. That's often because they look no further for a simpler explanation, or don't know how to (or in some cases don't want to). People are notoriously bad observers. And of course chance means that sometimes dowsers get a positive result, which confirms their belief in their ability.

Sadly for those who believe in dowsing the offer no longer exists, but before James Randi died anyone who was able to genuinely demonstrate such an ability could have claimed a million dollars from his foundation. It remained unclaimed despite many attempts over a period of about twenty years (though the prize wasn't initially as large). Generally it seems that the dowsers would agree to the terms of the test and be pretty certain they'd be successful only to fail and then blame some external factor that they'd not mentioned might cause a problem beforehand.

There have been many other investigations that found no evidence that it worked. I believe some even proposed mechanisms that might make the dowser think it was working that were in fact completely unrelated.

James

Debunk dowsing all you like. I can dowse in areas completely unknown to me with success. How and why it works I have no Idea but it does.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

This is probably a stupid question but how far away should bait boxes be from a hive and also what kind of distance should they be spaced out?
As I'm new to bee keeping I don't have any old comb to put in the boxes so what would be the best alternative?
Thanks

I've actually had a swarm settle on the roof of an adjacent hive in the apiary. Simply sat an empty nuc on the same roof and they walked right in.

 

[Boston Bees]

I've actually had a swarm settle on the roof of an adjacent hive in the apiary. Simply sat an empty nuc on the same roof and they walked right in.

I've had similar. I think sometimes they come out and just go "you know what girls, I just can't be arsed with this today, let's just go in that one"

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've had similar. I think sometimes they come out and just go "you know what girls, I just can't be arsed with this today, let's just go in that one"

Well bees are bees. We try to second guess them; sometime it works sometimes not. It’s the way of the world. No matter what shenanigans you can advise somebody to get up to in preparing and siting a bait box there’s always a tale of bees doing just that

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've actually had a swarm settle on the roof of an adjacent hive in the apiary.

Yep - had one settle on the front of a hive once (wasn't one of mine) so I just dumped them in a spare nuc I had in the truck, then Redwood and I were just checking on some nucs with new queens in at the association apiary and he noticed there was a swarm clustered underneath one of the nucs (mated, unmarked queen in there)

 

[Newbeeneil]

I always have a bait hive in my apiaries. Every visit I have a quick look and if there is any interest I make sure they are not my bees. TBH I rarely get any swarms in them but they are a good indicator if one of my hives preparing to swarm.

 

[JamezF]

Debunk dowsing all you like. I can dowse in areas completely unknown to me with success. How and why it works I have no Idea but it does.

If you have no idea how or why it works, you can't be certain it's the dowsing and not something else that you've not thought of. You can believe it works, but that doesn't mean it does.

As I've already said more than once, people are notoriously unreliable observers, though as that has also been demonstrated quite clearly using the scientific method, perhaps those who don't want to believe it will claim otherwise.

James

 

[user 20297]

Well bees are bees. We try to second guess them; sometime it works sometimes not. It’s the way of the world. No matter what shenanigans you can advise somebody to get up to in preparing and siting a bait box there’s always a tale of bees doing just that

So, bees being so predictably unpredictable, is a swarm less likely to land in an apiary-based bait box than they are in a ley-line-located one which is miles away from any apiary?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you have no idea how or why it works, you can't be certain it's the dowsing and not something else that you've not thought of. You can believe it works, but that doesn't mean it does.

So can you point us to scientifically proven evidence that it doesn't work