How do I combine colonies from different kinds of hive into one?

[Beeconfused]

I have a queenless colony in an 11 frame National Hive as the result of a failed split.
I also have a six frame poly NUC containing a healthy laying queen and bees which was from a swarm I collected in May.
Please can anyone advise me of the best way that I can combine the two.
I.e. introduce the queen and frames of brood from the poly NUC into the National hive. The frames are all the same size.

Any advice will be gratefully received.

 

[enrico]

Double brood them for a while. Ie put the nuc in another brood box and combine them.
E

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

I have exactly the same job to do reintroducing a nuc' swarm back to the hive it came from. The queen cell left in the hive appeared to emerge, but the colony is wasting away with no eggs or larvae evident. Shame as it was my most robust colony coming into the Spring. The swarm was captured on May 18th so I would expect to see evidence of the replacement queen by now...

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have a queenless colony in an 11 frame National Hive as the result of a failed split.
I also have a six frame poly NUC containing a healthy laying queen and bees which was from a swarm I collected in May.
Please can anyone advise me of the best way that I can combine the two.
I.e. introduce the queen and frames of brood from the poly NUC into the National hive. The frames are all the same size.

Any advice will be gratefully received.

Transfer the nuc frames into a full size brood box and dummy the frames.
Unite with newspaper.
Once through the paper you can reduce to the one brood straightaway as you are likely to have enough empty brood frames in the queenless split.

 

[Ian123]

If you’ve got an extra brood it’s easy a suggested above I am guessing you may not have? If that’s the case sit the nuc on the floor cut a piece of ply to external dimension of your brood then cut a hole inside that to the internal dimensions of nuc box stack up separate with paper job done. It also works with different hive types. Ian

 

[fullframe45]

I am in the same situation as BEECONFUSED Have a double brood inspected today and no sighn of eggs or lava but on the face of several frames emergency cells.Well i think they are with my very limited knowledge. around a dozen in total ,some almost capped and a few capped.I did a split from this hive only two weeks back. Anyway i have a nuc with a caught swarm doing nicely eggs lava and today i saw and marked the queen. Should i tear down all the emergency cells and combine the two or just leave em as they are.? If i do combine and there Just happens to be a queen in the hive .Well being new im undecided.

 

[fullframe45]

Sorry should have said that the swarm is now in a national brood box so if i unite it would be creating a hive with three brood boxes.If it makes any difference.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Transfer the nuc frames into a full size brood box and dummy the frames.
Unite with newspaper.
Once through the paper you can reduce to the one brood straightaway as you are likely to have enough empty brood frames in the queenless split.

Sorry should have said that the swarm is now in a national brood box so if i unite it would be creating a hive with three brood boxes.If it makes any difference.

How did you make a six frame nuc fill two boxes?

 

[Beeconfused]

If you’ve got an extra brood it’s easy a suggested above I am guessing you may not have? If that’s the case sit the nuc on the floor cut a piece of ply to external dimension of your brood then cut a hole inside that to the internal dimensions of nuc box stack up separate with paper job done. It also works with different hive types. Ian

Thank you for your replies.
I don’t have another brood box and the polystyrene nuc has a fixed mesh floor in it, so I am struggling to see how I can use the newspaper method to introduce the swarm in the nuc into the queenless colony in the National hive.
The solution may be to buy another National hive then transfer the nuc into it and add extra frames and then combine the two nationals, but I was hoping not to have to do that.

 

[Beeconfused]

Transfer the nuc frames into a full size brood box and dummy the frames.
Unite with newspaper.
Once through the paper you can reduce to the one brood straightaway as you are likely to have enough empty brood frames in the queenless split.

Yes, I think that’s the best thing to do. Trouble is, I don’t have another brood box so I was hoping there was another way, without buying more kit.

One more question, if I do buy another brood box and put the six nuc frames containing the colony that came from the swarm into it, then I place the new brood box on top of the queenless brood box, separated by newspaper, what happens to the flying bees left behind, who will be searching in the old location for the nuc box?

 

[Beeconfused]

Double brood them for a while. Ie put the nuc in another brood box and combine them.
E

Thank you. I don’t have another brood box so I was hoping for an easier way.

 

[Beeconfused]

Thank you for your replies.
I don’t have another brood box and the polystyrene nuc has a fixed mesh floor in it, so I am struggling to see how I can use the newspaper method to introduce the swarm in the nuc into the queenless colony in the National hive.
The solution may be to buy another National hive then transfer the nuc into it and add extra frames and then combine the two nationals, but I was hoping not to have to do that.

I was wondering. I don’t have a spare brood box but I do have a few spare supers.
What if I put two supers, one on top of the other, then put the brood frames from the poly nuc into it then filled it up with frames of foundation, then placed the whole lot on top of the queenless brood box, separated by newspaper. Would that work?
If it did, what is the best way to get the new combined colony back into the brood box so I can take away the two supers?=

Also, what would happen to the flying bees left behind at the location where the nuc was?

 

[Erichalfbee]

During the day you’ll have to rig your new “hive” up. You’ll have to cobble a solid floor up and a roof. Transfer the nuc frames into it placing the boxes where the nuc was. At your queenless box take off the crownboard and put a sheet of newspaper on top of the frames held down by a QX. Put the roof back. In the evening when the bees have stopped flying gently lift your swarm on top of the the other. I do my unites like this and never lose more than half a dozen bees left on the floor.
I’m guessing enough frames in the queenless colony are empty so it’s easy enough to consolidate the frames. Just keep the nuc frames in the same order and take the spare ones away. If they are serviceable pop them in the freezer and you have drawn brood frames spare

 

[Beeconfused]

During the day you’ll have to rig your new “hive” up. You’ll have to cobble a solid floor up and a roof. Transfer the nuc frames into it placing the boxes where the nuc was. At your queenless box take off the crownboard and put a sheet of newspaper on top of the frames held down by a QX. Put the roof back. In the evening when the bees have stopped flying gently lift your swarm on top of the the other. I do my unites like this and never lose more than half a dozen bees left on the floor.
I’m guessing enough frames in the queenless colony are empty so it’s easy enough to consolidate the frames. Just keep the nuc frames in the same order and take the spare ones away. If they are serviceable pop them in the freezer and you have drawn brood frames spare

Thank you. Great advice.

I can easily cobble together a floor and a roof.
As I haven’t got a spare brood box, do you think I would get away with using two empty supers and placing them on top of each other?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thank you. Great advice.

I can easily cobble together a floor and a roof.
As I haven’t got a spare brood box, do you think I would get away with using two empty supers and placing them on top of each other?

Yes - they're only going to be in there for a short while

 

[Beeconfused]

Yes - they're only going to be in there for a short while

Thanks. I’m all set now. I’ll let you know how I get on.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Hi Dani / JBM
I want to combine a swarm back to a hive that is brood and a half with two supers, one mostly full and mostly capped, one started.
The bee numbers have dwindled following swarming and virgin queen failure.
I want to combine the swarm back which is doing well, and get rid of the half brood box at the same time. (I've really learned the pitfalls of brood and a half!)
Would it be best to put the swarm brood box on the floor, then the paper and queen excluder, then the old brood boxes and supers?
Would the presence of brood in the bottom box attract the bees down so I can dispense with the old broods quickly?
Or would it be best to remove the supers completely until properly combined?
I'd appreciated your advice.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You can combine either way. I’d go for the easier option if putting the swarm on top. Can you clear one super?
When you consolidate the brood combs you can use the half brood as a super simply putting a queen excluder between it and you brood box or take it away if it’s empty.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You can combine either way. I’d go for the easier option if putting the swarm on top. Can you clear one super?
When you consolidate the brood combs you can use the half brood as a super simply putting a queen excluder between it and you brood box or take it away if it’s empty.

Exactly

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Thanks both, much obliged.