Honeybee density

[isc26]

Hi i've been trying to find some guidance on recommendations of how many hives an area can support. In particular I'm looking at allotments in urban areas. So far 3 hives per acre seems a best guess. I wonder if anyone has any views on this?

 

[beeboybee]

surly it must be down to available forage and not a set rule of how many per acre?

 

[grizzly]

As bbb says check out the availability of forage, all year round. Then see how many other keepers are already in the locality. That should help.

 

[steve1958]

Its hard to work out accuritly as you dont know how many 'Back Garden' beehives there may be in the same area.

One thing I am aware of though is that most allotment associations place a limit as to how many hives they are happy to have on their site, so I should research this first.

 

[Easy Beesy]

I was told by a bee farmer they reckon on one hive per acre for pollination.

 

[nelletap]

I think there is a link here to the apparent thriving of hives in London and what we can do to add to forage. We are told that in London bees do well due to the variety in forage (and some say that less agricultural management/pesticides though I know the jury is still out on that). If, for every hive sited, people added forage possiblities locally, it could be a win win situation. As well as trying to put a few plants to cover more than one period in our gardens etc, we could perhaps sow wildflower/bee attracting seeds in all the verges and pockets of near wasteland eg woodland, near ponds. I am sure forage is a key issue and assume that the most crucial forage shortage could occur in that period they talk about in June - so in particular forage that covers the leanest time could be key? But heck - what do I know as I so often find this site reminds me of how much I have still to learn.
Tricia

 

[Chris Luck]

It's a fascinating question and one that I suspect is an impossible question to answer due to all the variables.

It would be quite possible and sustainable to park 40 colonies in the middle of a 10 acre square of tarmac and everything to still be fine if the surrounding area outside the square had a reasonable density of different types of bee forage throughout the season.

On the other hand the reverse, 40 colonies on 10 acres of good, all season forage surrounded with nothing but tarmac wouldn't stand a chance.

Chris

 

[RoofTops]

As mentioned above it is very hard to tell until you actually put colonies on the site but if we are talking about an allotment in an urban area then I think you could happily put a dozen colonies on one spot and then see how they go.

But:

The main issue will not be the amount of forage but the possible nuisance value of too many colonies annoying the allotment holders. The more colonies you have the greater the chance that at any one time one of the colonies will have gone "rougue" and start following and stinging people on sight.


I suggest start small and grow gradually.

 

[Bucks_Boy]

The main issue will not be the amount of forage but the possible nuisance value of too many colonies annoying the allotment holders. The more colonies you have the greater the chance that at any one time one of the colonies will have gone "rougue" and start following and stinging people on sight.


I suggest start small and grow gradually.

I agree -- I am on a small site of 20 plots ( 2 acres) on the edge of a village -- 3 hives are more than ample to get regular updates from each plotholder on what my bees are feeding on --- takes me 20 minutes to get from gate to plot and costs me 12 jars every summer !

Also, dont underestimate the "hidden" beekeepers -- I thoght I was the only one in the village -- turns out I'm one of 10 ! -- I even have an out apiary close to Nelletap

 

[Poly Hive]

The only answer is suck it and see.

If you have five one year and get an average of 100 lbs then graeat.

Expand to 10 and still get 100 lbs per hive then better still.

Expand to 10 and get 80 then still good.

Expand to 10 and get 20 then.... time to think.

PH (Not an original thought by 50 years as Manley said it then.)

 

[Baggyone]

I'm going on the basis that if I need to put on 4 supers on each hive I can squeeze another. But if I only get 2 on then I need to reduce the population. I cannot see the point of working more hives for no extra result.

That would propably upset the people who want more bees at any cost that do not necessarily understand that there is only a certain amount of forage available.

Baggy

 

[Poly Hive]

The greedy ones soon learn... LOL

PH

 

[isc26]

Hi thanks for your responses so far.

To be clear I'm happy with 2 colonies and intend to stay at that level.

My reason for asking is that recently I have been helping to establish some guidelines for allotment beekeeping in the North East and one element was to establish an upper limit to avoid a backlash from nuisance & harm to bees from 'overgrazing'. Not much evidence around that I've found to give credible information.

Take all the points made about available forage, nuisance, hidden beekeepers & that it's to a degree self regulating because two many hives & some will not survive.

Still interested if anyone else has any comments.

 

[Skyhook]

Once again we come back to beekeping for honey v. beekeeping for the environment and loveliness. There may be a valid argument that by providing bees we ensure polination and therefore continuity of wild flowers and so supporting more erratic populations of wild pollinators; but clearly if our bees are hoovering up all the nectar available in an area, we may add to the problems of bumbles etc.

 

[Chris Luck]

I don't think it's that simple Skyhook.

I have a lot of honey bee colonies at my place. I also have as huge a range of other species as you would be likely to find anywhere in Western Europe that includes, as I've posted elsewhere, well over 100 different solitary bee species, a vast range of Butterflies and Moths, a huge number of different Hoverfly species all of which are nectar users and some are also pollen users.

It's all a question of habitat.

Well, it always is, isn't it?

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

Not so Skyhook, bumbles can utilise nectar sources that our bees cannot access.

Hybrid clover for instance.

Horses for courses.

PH

 

[keithgrimes]

The allotments controlled by Newcastle City Council have, I'm told, a limit of 2 hives per allotment site (not plot, site).

 

[Chris Luck]

Interestingly, perhaps, is that in France putting hives in a public or semi public place wouldn't be permitted. In fact there are strict rules as to where you can put them, distance from neighbours property, distance from roads and other public right of ways etc.

....and you think you live in a Nanny State.

Chris

 

[isc26]

The current policy in Newcastle is a recommendation of 2 hives + a nuc per plot with a recommendation of 3 per acre.

The way Newcastle works is that decisions are largely devolved to individual allotment associations. They collectively decide through a working group. Individual associations can therefore set own limits.

This contrasts with a neighbouring area, Hexham, where no hives are allowed on allotments but are allowed in graveyards. Go figure.

 

[Poly Hive]

Less passers by in graveyards possibly is the thinking.

However setting allotments and graveyards aside.

to find out what can be supported in a given area is really a matter of trial and error.

I used to put thirty to forty hives per rape site and about 20 per heather site.

The difference being that getting enough level (ish) and accessible space for the moors meant more often than not that I had to keep the numbers down.

Nothing to do with the nectar available on the moors....LOL

PH