Honey rather than sugar

[Finman]

Several completely different ways of doing things and a few people who like to turn it into something a little more important than it actually is.

Question is, what do the bees stand when you mix their natural order and against their natural instincts.

If bees are alive afterwards, it does not mean that you are turned genius and you have invented something new.

Bees do all the time huge work to return things according their natural habits.

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[Finman]

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Honeybee is a wild animal. Beekeeping skills arise then when you know their natural habit to live in the hive. They do not do it same way and hives have individual styles.

When you know them and you may predict what they are doing next, you may try to lead them according your will. But where is bees' limit, it is a skill. The more you have hives, the more you learn about their habits.

But I am sure, that when a beginner uses excluder, he will never learn about hives' natural habits. To many excluder is magic tool like hive cannot live without it. Even if a beekeeper do not extract honey, he keeps excluder. 2 hives is small material to learn everything what bees get into their mind.

Often guys say that bees do fast that and that. However brood cycle is 3 weeks, and it is not fast. Often I wonder to where speed is needed?

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[ichbinpaul]

(quoted by Finman)I move allways brood in lower box when I start to feed hives. in same inspect I move pollen frames to better places that they do not take mold. Pollen stores are normally in sidemost frames and that is the place where they are ruined during winter.[/QUOTE]

Finman, where do you recomend to move the frames with pollen? this would be most useful in a damp mild wnter I would imagine.

 

[Finman]

(
Finman, where do you recomend to move the frames with pollen? this would be most useful in a damp mild wnter I would imagine.

We have too moist weather. The most moist is under snow when snow is wet.

To sidemost I put a wite new comb or foundation. Then food frame and them pollen.

white-food- pollen - food food (or brood) food food - pollen - food -white.

= 10 frames

Dark combs and pollen combs will be surely moldy if they are against the wall.

If hive has much brood frames when I arrange. order is ...
IIII -----white-pollen brood----

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[ichbinpaul]

We have too moist weather. The most moist is under snow when snow is wet.

To sidemost I put a wite new comb or foundation. Then food frame and them pollen.

white-food- pollen - food food (or brood) food food - pollen - food -white.

= 10 frames

Dark combs and pollen combs will be surely moldy if they are against the wall.

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Much appreciated Finman, (even if you do speak a funny language)

 

[Finman]

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If I have 2-box wintering, I put pollen frames to upper box. Before spring bees eate sugar from lower box but after cleansing flight they cannot go to empty, cold lower box. Pollen store must be near brood area.

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[Finman]

even if you do speak a funny language)

I am not English and I do not mind what I write.

I must invent every time how to put words.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Much appreciated Finman, (even if you do speak a funny language)

It's all of the rest of you who speak a funny language - me and Finny speak proper

 

[Finman]

even if you do speak a funny language)

Now I understand why I have not been banned from forum

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[ichbinpaul]

It's all of the rest of you who speak a funny language - me and Finny speak proper

We English have always make exceptions for the Welsh, someone has to

 

[sugarbush]

Now I understand why I have not been banned from forum

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I think it is because Brits drink too much to care

 

[Finman]

I think it is because Brits drink too much to care

I think that you should stop the Beemaster forum. It is a bigger danger to US bees than Michigan winter.
I said that and I was banned.

Finland is at same latitude as Alaska. Anchorage is at same latitude as Helsinki 60 degree

Lets look what Alaska's Fairbanks University says about wintering: Revised December 2012

"Alaska’s beekeeping season begins each spring with newly hived bees. The honey flow usually ends the middle of August, but many people wait until the first of September to kill their bees.

Though several individuals have kept bees through the winter in recent years, and a few even had some live bees in the spring, as yet no truly economical or satisfactory over-wintering method has been successful. Additional trials are being conducted. Package bees, therefore, are ordered in mid-winter for late April/early May"


WOW. Not much to add to that May Power be with American Beekeeping!

http://www.uaf.edu/files/ces/publications-db/catalog/anr/ABM-00230.pdf

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[pargyle]

I think it is because Brits drink too much to care

No... we care ... but we also like arguing ... particularly British Beekeepers. Finman provides the basis for a lot of the arguments on here ...

By the way .... who resurrected this thread ? I thought it had died off in the arctic tundra of Finland ....

 

[user 6228]

I think that you should stop the Beemaster forum. It is a bigger danger to US bees than Michigan winter.
I said that and I was banned.

Finland is at same latitude as Alaska. Anchorage is at same latitude as Helsinki 60 degree

Lets look what Alaska's Fairbanks University says about wintering: Revised December 2012

"Alaska’s beekeeping season begins each spring with newly hived bees. The honey flow usually ends the middle of August, but many people wait until the first of September to kill their bees.

Though several individuals have kept bees through the winter in recent years, and a few even had some live bees in the spring, as yet no truly economical or satisfactory over-wintering method has been successful. Additional trials are being conducted. Package bees, therefore, are ordered in mid-winter for late April/early May"


WOW. Not much to add to that May Power be with American Beekeeping!

http://www.uaf.edu/files/ces/publications-db/catalog/anr/ABM-00230.pdf

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I've read that ... its outrageous.. my studies show its quite possible for hives costing £20 for bees to be able to overwinter comfortably below -25C
U.S. beekeeping with its winter top entrances and other practices is ..... words fail me.

 

[eatmorebeans]

I can't believe I've had the patience to read all this...!!!

Going back (a long way) to the OP, I have allways left my bees a full super of honey, and they have allways survived well with minimal or no feeding. However being such a small sample this is hardly scientific evidence.

Common sense tells me that honey is better than syrup. I doubt science can prove otherwise. So I've lost £130 max in honey sales? I have however saved the cost of sugar and the time taken to feed it and extract the honey. (I am a lazy git) Now, I charge my customers £30 per hour for my time, my hives are 15 minutes drive away, how much does diesel cost? lets work out the actual loss? (Don't forget the cost of jars and labels)

Also, I imagine few beeks on this forum are actually doing it for the money!

Anecdotal Scandinavian evidence notwithstanding.

Tony

 

[sunhivebee]

I can't believe I've had the patience to read all this...!!!

Going back (a long way) to the OP, I have allways left my bees a full super of honey, and they have allways survived well with minimal or no feeding. However being such a small sample this is hardly scientific evidence.

Common sense tells me that honey is better than syrup. I doubt science can prove otherwise. So I've lost £130 max in honey sales? I have however saved the cost of sugar and the time taken to feed it and extract the honey. (I am a lazy git) Now, I charge my customers £30 per hour for my time, my hives are 15 minutes drive away, how much does diesel cost? lets work out the actual loss? (Don't forget the cost of jars and labels)

Also, I imagine few beeks on this forum are actually doing it for the money!



Anecdotal Scandinavian evidence notwithstanding.

Tony

Trust your common sense. It used to be commonplace to use commonsense, and aim at overwintering the bees on their own honey, for the mere fact that they have evolved to live on just that. Do we really need scientists to prove it to us? Hardly.
The discussion is extremely interesting, and tells one much about the evolvement of human beings. But the evidence is probably anecdotal, as the majority of beekeepers who who would not dream of taking the bulk of their bees honey to substitute it with something inferior, do not post on here as they do not enjoy the prospect of ridicule or derision. Perfectly understandable, I guess.

 

[Finman]

and aim at overwintering the bees on their own honey,.

Good idea but you do not get enough honey in Britain to keep hives alive to next summer.

My average yield is this year enough to 4 hives. That is the difference in beekeeping skills. And our winter is 3 months longer.

What means Matthew in a purse, a German proverb?

In Finnish Matti kukkarossa

When your purse is empty and there is only a piece of paper, and in that Matthew's words :" I will be with you up to the end of the world."



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[Finman]

I
Going back (a long way) to the OP, I have allways left my bees a full super of honey, and they have allways survived well with minimal or no feeding. However being such a small sample this is hardly scientific evidence.

Tony

To feed average hive over winter costs 20 euros.

If I leave 20 kg honey, its cost is 120 euros.


Scientific evidence? - I have education of scientic researcher

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Also, I imagine few beeks on this forum are actually doing it for the money!

Tony

What are these forum guys then? Guys buy 3 fold expencive hives and buy 2 fold expencive winter food.

I must look English dictionary, what means "beekeeping".

- beekeeping - the cultivation of bees on a commercial scale for the production of honey,
apiculture

- cultivation - (agriculture) production of food by preparing the land to grow crops (especially on a large scale)

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[sunhivebee]

Finman: Good idea but you do not get enough honey in Britain to keep hives alive to next summer.

That's news to me.
Thanks for the quote from St. Matthew, it's Sunday, after all.

 

[Finman]

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That's news to me.
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Last summer 2012 the average yield in UK was 3 kg.
When you sell it, you get 20 kg sugar.



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