Hollow fence post bee removal (and hello from Zambia)

[ZambianVet]

Hi there, I am new to this forum. I’m from Zambia and I’ve got two hives currently. Got into bee keeping when I needed to move some bees from the garden and decided to try look after them rather than just kill them.

I have an urgent query if you don’t mind. A friend has some bees down a hollow gate post that I intend to catch and put them into a hive. I tried searching for advice about this situation but couldn’t find any. He wants them gone, I want some bees to put into a new brood box so it’s potentially a win win situation.
My current plan is to block of all the entrance holes to the pipe with cloth, cut the pipe off the concrete right at the base and then cover the bottom with some breathable cloth. That way the whole pipe will be sealed (about a 6 inch diameter pipe with a cap welded on the top). Once I have the pipe sealed but with a bit of air able to go through the cloth I want to take it back to my place (+- 40) and then leave the pipe open, at an angle leading up to my new empty brood box (a bit like all the suggestions about how to get a swarm into a hive with a cloth and a plank). I haven’t thought of any way of getting all the bees out the pipe by force without potentially killing the queen so thought I’d let them leave on their own accord.

Before you ask if I’m allowed to cut the post down, yes it was my friend’s idea actually. His farm can easily weld it back on once I have the bees out.

Any suggestions/advice and old stories would be greatly appreciated!


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[Madge]

Rather than taking the pipe back to your home, ZV, I would first try to move them into a box where they are. That way any flying bees will find their way back to the colony. Then, when they're all in that box, close the box in the evening, and move them to your home.

Getting them out of the pipe might be tricky. I don't think leaving the pipe at an angle will work. They'll stay with the brood in the pipe - although, they might eventually get the message and slowly move over to the box.

Alternatively, if you leave only one entrance into the pipe, then you could link a brood box to that entrance with a funnel arrangement so that all bees leaving the pipe has to go through the brood box and, on return, can't find their way back into the pipe - but that's a long-winded approach, and the queen might not follow.

It might be easier if you can shake them out or use a bee vac to get them out, and then, with a long knife, cut out the combs as best you can and tie the combs to empty frames - particularly combs with brood.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I would say that there is no real way you will get the queen out without removing the brood as she and most of the bees will stay with the brood unless they have an alternative.
I recently tried to get a colony out of a duct in a wall. I connected a box with frames of comb in it via a one way bee escape. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/vortexescape.html#roger
The foragers left via the escape and could not return but were frantic to try and get back into the duct. I then placed a frame of brood from another hive in the box which caused them to settle down and concentrate on producing a new queen from the newly introduced eggs.
Over the next couple of months the increasing number of foragers produced 2 queens which I removed as 3 frame nucs to try to encourage the queen to come out of the duct.
All this was in vain as I never coaxed her out and in the end, the colony in the duct essentially died out. The queen probably starved due to lack of foragers returning from the outside.
Good luck, but if it was me I would try to get a pipe, slightly smaller than the post, and use that to core out the wax and bees together!

 

[ZambianVet]

Rather than taking the pipe back to your home, ZV, I would first try to move them into a box where they are. That way any flying bees will find their way back to the colony. Then, when they're all in that box, close the box in the evening, and move them to your home.

Getting them out of the pipe might be tricky. I don't think leaving the pipe at an angle will work. They'll stay with the brood in the pipe - although, they might eventually get the message and slowly move over to the box.

Alternatively, if you leave only one entrance into the pipe, then you could link a brood box to that entrance with a funnel arrangement so that all bees leaving the pipe has to go through the brood box and, on return, can't find their way back into the pipe - but that's a long-winded approach, and the queen might not follow.

It might be easier if you can shake them out or use a bee vac to get them out, and then, with a long knife, cut out the combs as best you can and tie the combs to empty frames - particularly combs with brood.

Hi MC, thanks for the advice. I was thinking of doing the whole operation late in the evening so that all the bees would be home by then. Is it better to do it during the day like you suggested and then leave the box there for the foragers to find? Won’t they just go straight back to the pipe?


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[ZambianVet]

I would say that there is no real way you will get the queen out without removing the brood as she and most of the bees will stay with the brood unless they have an alternative.

I recently tried to get a colony out of a duct in a wall. I connected a box with frames of comb in it via a one way bee escape.

The foragers left via the escape and could not return but were frantic to try and get back into the duct. I then placed a frame of brood from another hive in the box which caused them to settle down and concentrate on producing a new queen from the newly introduced eggs.

Over the next couple of months the increasing number of foragers produced 2 queens which I removed as 3 frame nucs to try to encourage the queen to come out of the duct.

All this was in vain as I never coaxed her out and in the end, the colony in the duct essentially died out. The queen probably starved due to lack of foragers returning from the outside.

Good luck, but if it was me I would try to get a pipe, slightly smaller than the post, and use that to core out the wax and bees together!

Sadly I don’t have enough time to use a bee escape but thanks anyway. Your idea about using a smaller pipe is great I will see what I can find!


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[Madge]

Hi MC, thanks for the advice. I was thinking of doing the whole operation late in the evening so that all the bees would be home by then. Is it better to do it during the day like you suggested and then leave the box there for the foragers to find? Won’t they just go straight back to the pipe?

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Yes - you can see better, and the flying bees will have time to find their way to the box - and you’d have removed the pipe by then.

Apart from a long knife, or a smaller pipe, I’ve been thinking that it might be easiest to cut the pipe in half lengthwise using a grinderette - but first try and shake out as many bees as you can! Try and save as much of the comb as you can - particularly brood comb; tie them to empty frames (rubber band work); and add to your box.

Shake the bees straight into the new box - but put a sheet around it with a direct ramp access to the entrance for the ones falling outside the box.

Be sure you’re wearing a proper bee suit. They’ll be cross!

When all is done, close them in, in the evening when the bees have stopped flying (or very early in the morning - 5am).

Even if successful, scutellata may still take the hump and leave! But it’s worth trying.

 

[Finman]

.
If the swarm has newly went there, put into beebox a frame of larva brood and bees go to the box nurse brood. I do not know your situation and no other idea what to do.

 

[drex]

They used to drive bees out of one skep into another by drumming on the sides of the full skep. Similar approach might drive them from the pipe. If pipe is just placed next to their new home they will never leave it.

 

[Finman]

To drum African bees....

 

[applejack33]

Remove bees from post

Suggest you cut cap off top of post, cut post off near ground, then use length of flat metal a bit longer than the post to slide in and cut the comb away from the inside of the post. If possible then shake out as much as possible of the contents into another container/ box. Then use something else to gently push out any remaining contents. If poss rescue any comb and brood and maybe attach to frames. From thereon use your ingenuity to resolve any problems you may encounter. From this distance from you this is how I think I would manage it. Of course I may be completely wrong as I often am. Good luck....
PS, When you cut post off check nothing in that hole and cover it to prevent any thing going in while you are doing the operation. If any bees in the hole, suggest filling it with water to drive them out
Hope it doesn't go wrong.

 

[applejack33]

Remove bees from post

Just a short follow up to my previous posting. I am cheating a bit here. This happened to me shortly after I started keeping bees. Difference is my gate post was removable. So lifted out rather than cut off, also the cap on mine was a plastic one, so, easy to remove. The bees had gone in through the holes that took the locking bolt from the gate, (stupid things).

 

[bingevader]

Is the '40+-' kilometres to your house?
If so I'd cut the pipe off at night, closed up as you've suggested and return home to work on it the next morning.
Cutting the pipe up would be easiest, but if they want the pipe back then you'll have to remove the comb with a very long palette knife (or appropriate piece of metal, I have a metal metre ruler that would do)!

 

[Madge]

Is the '40+-' kilometres to your house?
If so I'd cut the pipe off at night, closed up as you've suggested and return home to work on it the next morning. ...

If the top and bottom of the pipe is already sealed - then, yes. That will save time.

But if not - no, I don’t think so. The bees won’t quietly sit inside the pipe and wait for ZV to complete the cutting.

 

[applejack33]

Good point MC. Leave a new box where the post was and take the post some distance away. Flying bees (stingers) should return to the new box. Then with both ends open get the contents out of the post into another container, salvaging any comb/brood. When done take this container back to original site so that flyers can rejoin. Leave there till late evening when flying stops then close up and take to new site far enough away so that flyers will not return.ie; more than 3 miles away. When emptied the hollow post would need to be covered to prevent nosey/ robber bees getting in at the remnants of honey inside and asap pressure washed out before sealing and returning it to its original position.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

To drum African bees....

Jungle drums?

 

[Finman]

Jungle drums?

Exactly... Conect such to the the gate column.
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One trait (beneficial maybe in this case) ofScutellata is that they don't like to be disturbed and are prone to abscond, the easiest solution here I think would be to induce this by some means, either just by smoking/drumming until they just abandon the post then follow the swarm (If catching them is that important) or, once you have moved the post, do the same and just hope they settle into the new hive - my choice would be the first. Getting the queen out intact by poking or scraping the comb out is likely to end up with the queen dead

 

[Cuckmere couple]

ZV

keep us updated (avoided saying 'posted') its an interesting scenario

ive just returned from Zambia - working with ZNPHI (newly formed) and doing some One Health work with them!

 

[Finman]

Is the '40+-' kilometres to your house?
If so I'd cut the pipe off at night, closed up as you've suggested and return home to work on it the next morning.
)!

And Hell will explode. Return to home if you are alive.

Evening and night are worst time to manipulate a colony.

 

[ZambianVet]

Thanks for all the advice. Would love to work with them in the day but I am worried about human conflict. A lot of people use the road through the gate during the day and I don’t want them getting stung while I work.

Will definitely keep you all updated, probably going to attempt to get them out on the 26th. Have great Christmas everyone!


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