Hiving a swarm

[Monkey]

I found a swarm in my hedge while I was cutting my grass this afternoon. I reckon it's a swarm from my own hive as it was so close, and my inspection showed a sealed Q cell last week.

If I'm lucky, I've got my own bees back. They're currently in a cardboard nuc box on the floor. The Q seems certainly to be inside as the returning flying bees are keen to climb in to the box.

I've got a fresh BB ready for them, a few metres away from my live hive, and the entrance in 90 degrees off the original. I've only got fresh foundation in it, no drawn comb.

My first question is, if I put the swarm in to my prepared hive, will the flying bees return to the old hive?

As they will only have foundation, should I feed them, or just leave them to get on with things?

This is my first swarm, so any tips or advice in general would be most welcome.

Thanks.

 

[drex]

Swarms readily draw comb, so just having foundation is no problem. Traditionally do not feed for 2-3 days. This is so they use up any potentially contaminated honey in their stomachs. If you are confident they are your bees, and the parent colony was healthy that will not be a problem. Feeding will help them draw comb.
They reset their sat nav's after swarming. I would get them into permanent home asap

 

[Finman]

.
Second swarm is coming from parent hive. Do something, that you get it. It has one or few virgin queens.

Parent hive has still swarming fever.

If swarming is near, virgins are inside the queen cells, and they can fly. They piip there. I don't know what they say and to whom.

When second swarm leaves, the rest virgins 10-15 start fighting to each others.

 

[Monkey]

Hmmm, well that didn't go as I'd hoped.

I walked the bees in to the hive, and it was a beautiful thing to watch as they all traipsed up the ramp to the entrance. It was exactly how the videos show it should happen. I came in to have a celebratory cup of tea and to watch the films I'd taken of it.

About 45 minutes later, I went to check on them and it was mayhem. Flying bees all over the place and the swarm gathering outside the hive under the roof. I guess they don't like their proposed home.

I've put the nuc box on the roof, with a small gap at the bottom, in the hope that they'd climb back in so I can buy some time to come up with plan B. Some of the bees did climb up in to it, but it seems just a few, the swarm as a whole isn't moving.

It's getting cold now, so I plan to leave them alone until the morning. If they're still there, I shall try and recapture them in the nuc.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to why they have left the hive, and what I can try next?

 

[Finman]

.
The queen is under the hive.

Make some kind of floor and put box on it.

then put the floor over the box, bees downwards.

If the inner cover have feeding hole in the roof, put the floor with bees over it and bees go into the box by themselves.

 

[drex]

They do sometimes abscond from what for us is a " des res" . If you manage to get them into a box, it is a good idea to put queen excluder over the entrance, or under the BB if in full sized hive. Only leave it on for a Couple of days.
Time is getting on now, but I think I would have scooped the new cluster up and thrown them into hive. Hopefully they will still be there in the morning.
Never done the walking in bit. I always just chuck them in.

 

[Poly Hive]

Put an excluder between the underside of the brood box and the floor.

Note to yourself... a sealed queen cell MEANS something as you are finding out!

PH

 

[Monkey]

a sealed queen cell MEANS something as you are finding out!

PH

Agreed. I got caught up in the supercedure thread that is going on, as what I saw mirrored what was being discussed. Consequently, I was more relaxed about doing something than I should have been. My fault I'm in this position.

 

[pargyle]

They do sometimes abscond from what for us is a " des res" . If you manage to get them into a box, it is a good idea to put queen excluder over the entrance, or under the BB if in full sized hive. Only leave it on for a Couple of days.
Time is getting on now, but I think I would have scooped the new cluster up and thrown them into hive. Hopefully they will still be there in the morning.
Never done the walking in bit. I always just chuck them in.

Plus one ... starting again in the morning means that the scouts will be out flying for a whole day and you may lose the lot. Like Drex I just shake the whole lot into either a box or a hive if I can get one in position .. or scoop them up and chuck them in. Put the roof on, leave it next to where they have swarmed until the evening and if you've got the queen in the hive you have got a fighting chance they will stay put. Move them to where you are going to site the hive after it gets dark.

Good luck tomorrow .. try and get them into the hive as early as you can, if they definitely your bees put a feeder on with a litre or so of syrup and you might find that will encourage them to find your box a bit desirable.

Just as a matter of interest .. where did your foundation come from ?

 

[Monkey]

Just as a matter of interest .. where did your foundation come from ?

New from Thorne last week.

 

[Monkey]

Thanks for all the advice so far, everyone. I'd be really sad to lose this swarm, although it's largely my fault. This colony has been a delight to work with. I've had two stings in two years from them, one where I caught a bee between my hand and the hive tool, and one where a bee was still on my suit when I took it off last year and grabbed her. I hope the colony they've left behind stays as good.

It's odd but I'm feeling quite anxious about them tonight. They should be in a hive, or shelter of sorts, but they're hanging off the outside of a perfectly good home for them, in the cold.

 

[oliver90owner]

Are you sure this is a prime swarm? If you saw a sealed queen cell a week before, they may already have swarmed before that and this is a cast? Casts are notorious for moving out of the home you have offered.

Problem is that you cannot confine her - as she needs to fly to mate. This is maybe a case for giving them a comb of brood to look after.

 

[Finman]

Are you sure this is a prime swarm? If you saw a sealed queen cell a week before, they may already have swarmed before that and this is a cast? Casts are notorious for moving out of the home you have offered.

Problem is that you cannot confine her - as she needs to fly to mate. This is maybe a case for giving them a comb of brood to look after.

That is not a problem, is she she or what. When he saw a capped queen cell, the only way should be to make artificial swarm. But he is handling swarming first time.

 

[Finman]

.
When you enter to swarming period, note this:

- keep ready extra boxes. You need them however in old hives.
- keep ready extra foundations and frames .... You need however then in old hives

- when you see queen cells, do not start to pick them but do a artificial swarm onto foundations. If you make onto ready comb, swarming fever continues very often.

- if you pick cells, bees do them more.

- second swarm/ cast is coming from brood box when virgins emerge. When emerging is near, the tip of the cell becomes dark and bees bite wax away from the tip. Act at once. Often cells are different ages.

- when hive is peeping, the swarm can go when ever. Mostly it is second swarm and first virgin is running along frames.
- when the the swarm has left, you may find 10 virgins running along combs at same time.

- if you use queens from swarming cells, it is sure that the hive will swarm next year. Non swarming queen are difficult to maintain. Do not feel quilty for bees' swarming. First of all learn to play with artificial swarms and keep materials ready.
.



.

 

[pargyle]

It's odd but I'm feeling quite anxious about them tonight. They should be in a hive, or shelter of sorts, but they're hanging off the outside of a perfectly good home for them, in the cold.

I would't worry about that ... swarms can sit in a tree for two or three days -sometims more - when the committee can't decide on their new home. It's not mid winter they will survive.

The reason I asked about the source of the foundation is there has been some evidence in the past of bees rejecting foundation from dubious sources (presumably because there was some contamination in there that they didn't like).. but if it came from Thornes it should be alright.

Oliver90Owner might well be on the money ... your original queen wasn't marked ? If she was you might have some indication as to what the swarm was. If it is a caste then the last thing you need to do is confine her with a queen excluder if she is a virgin.

First job is to try and get them to stay in the box, RAB is right - a frame of brood if you have one from your other hive may well encourage them to stay put.

Not easy this beekeeping lark is it ?

Good luck. Let us all know how you get on ...

 

[Finman]

.
Normally a swarm sit half day in same place and then it moves on.

 

[pargyle]

.
Normally a swarm sit half day in same place and then it moves on.

Normally .. Yes ... invariably ... No.

I picked up a swarm last year that had been in a bush for four days and had actually started building some comb on a branch. Was it a temporary home as they could just not find the desres they really wanted or had they (stupidly) decided a bush in the open was a sensible place to live ?

Easiest swarm collection I'd ever done .. in the evening I cut the branch off, put it in a hive, hardly a murmur. An hour later .. they were all in bed and away it went.

 

[thedozzer]

Thanks for all the advice so far, everyone. I'd be really sad to lose this swarm, although it's largely my fault. This colony has been a delight to work with. I've had two stings in two years from them, one where I caught a bee between my hand and the hive tool, and one where a bee was still on my suit when I took it off last year and grabbed her. I hope the colony they've left behind stays as good.

It's odd but I'm feeling quite anxious about them tonight. They should be in a hive, or shelter of sorts, but they're hanging off the outside of a perfectly good home for them, in the cold.

Hi, Had a similar issue with our first swarm, just hung on the entrance for over an hour.

eventually we used a dustpan and just carefully scooped them into the hive, our queen isn't marked but as 3 weeks on we have 8 14x12 frames of caped brood she must be OK

we had a second cast that sat in a tree for 3 days till we did a hamfisted job of moving them = https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=44309&page=4
Sometimes they seem to need a bit of encouragement.

 

[Monkey]

Well, I've walked them back in to the hive. Used a dustpan and brush to scoop them off the side of the hive on to a board. They seem happy. There were a lot of flying bees after I disturbed them, but they have pretty much all gone in now. I've put a small entrance in the opening so they've got something they can defend if necessary.

All is calm in my apiary. I hope it stays that way. I guess the next few hours, or couple of days will tell.

Once again, thanks for the advice and support.

 

[Finman]

Normally .. Yes ... invariably ... No.

I picked up a swarm last year that had been in a bush for four days .

You trust on that..... Ok.