Hive stand legs

[scuttlefish]

Does it make a difference to stability whether the legs on a hive stand are vertical l or slanted / ?

Very basic question probably, but then I'm a very basic kind of guy.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Slanted is definitely more stable but vertical is normally fine

 

[drstitson]

pile of pallets fine too!

 

[oliver90owner]

It will make no difference. Apart from ground pressure.

 

[scuttlefish]

pile of pallets fine too!

They always seem to rot in less than a year - must be the damp Irish climate!

Thanks all for the answers.

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

Of course if they are all slanted in the same direction you may have a problem!

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

It will make no difference. Apart from ground pressure.

RAB - I defer to your superior knowledge on these things, but could you explain why (in simple words)? Seems to fly in the face of reason

 

[victor meldrew]

Wider the base ,more stable the stack ! .
If ground is level and stack perpendicular ,then No it makes no difference
VM

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Wider the base ,more stable the stack ! .
If ground is level and stack perpendicular ,then No it makes no difference
VM

Blimey VM, managed to confuse me further (yes, its like shooting fish in a barrel)

So is a wider base under a perpendicular stack on level ground more stable or the same?

 

[oliver90owner]

MA

All things being equal, the centre of mass will be central and tipping the hive a little, will will invoke unstable equilibrium, in that it will return to it's original position on removing the upsetting force. That will be the case until the centre of mass is outside the area of the base, at which point it will attain stable equilibrium by falling on another face (ie it will fall over!)

Whether the legs are at an angle will not alter the basics laws of Physics. Hope that helps.

Regards, RAB

 

[winmag270]

Hope that helps.

No it doesn't.....!!

 

[victor meldrew]

Blimey VM, managed to confuse me further (yes, its like shooting fish in a barrel)

So is a wider base under a perpendicular stack on level ground more stable or the same?

More stable in that the effort required to topple a stack is less as the height increases whilst the base width remains the same !
Stand a brick on end and a gusty wind will topple it .
Lay the brick flat and it would take a hurricane to shift it !
Simples
VM

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

No it doesn't.....!!

So are you saying that is the floor is shaped like
._____
/vvvvv\ it is more stable, but if its like

_____
/vvv\ (hope that looks as its meant) it is the same, given the floors are the same size?

 

[scuttlefish]

So are you saying that is the floor is shaped like
._____
/vvvvv\ it is more stable, but if its like

_____
/vvv\ (hope that looks as its meant) it is the same, given the floors are the same size?

...but if you put weight on either end of the stand then
______
/vvvv\

will be more stable than

_____
lvvvl

 

[crazy_bull]

MA

All things being equal, the centre of mass will be central and tipping the hive a little, will will invoke unstable equilibrium, in that it will return to it's original position on removing the upsetting force. That will be the case until the centre of mass is outside the area of the base, at which point it will attain stable equilibrium by falling on another face (ie it will fall over!)

Whether the legs are at an angle will not alter the basics laws of Physics. Hope that helps.

Regards, RAB

But having having the legs at angles will increase the base area (compared to vertical legs) and so increase it's stability,

'A pyramid is more stable than a tower'

However stress on the legs could be greater with the legs at an angle as apposed to vertical, as the forces will not be straight through the legs.

 

[scuttlefish]

However stress on the legs could be greater with the legs at an angle as apposed to vertical, as the forces will not be straight through the legs.

Damn, and I'd decided on slanted - have to think again now! (building two stands tomorrow)

 

[RoofTops]

Not sure if I am going to add any clarity to this thread but going back to the original question, the answer I think is if, by having slanted legs the stand is wider at the bottom than it would be if the legs went straight down from the top, then the stand will be more stable.

However, if the legs only slant in one direction (plane) then the stand will be not have an extra stability in the other direction. So not a lot has probably been achieved, other than aesthetically slanting legs probably look a bit prettier.

It is of course perfectly possible to make the base wider with vertical legs by making the top bigger, so the legs go down to meet the ground where they would have if the legs were slanted off a smaller top. Vertical legs will also make the stand easier to make. I don't think the extra stresses should be a big issue unless the slanting was taken to extremes.

For me the main issue would be access. If you make the base wide it is probably going to get in the way of your feet and legs as you inspect. This is why my hive stands are only as wide as the hives and the (metal) legs are narrower still with stability being achieved by the legs being sunk into the ground.

 

[victor meldrew]

VM

 

[Erichalfbee]

My hives are on uneven ground and I got round the stability issue by sinking fence posts into the ground and screwing 4 x 2 s to them. Not even a bear could shift that

 

[oliver90owner]

...but if you put weight on either end of the stand then
______
/vvvv\

will be more stable than

_____
lvvvl

Err, no! Unless you have drawn it like that to try to cloud the issue. The 'v' s should indicate the foot distance, not the leg attachment distance.

The stability (ie not toppling over) is simply a function of the base area and the centre of mass in relation to that area. Increasing the area or decreasing the centre of gravity (as in height of centre of mass) will increase stability.

You asked a basic kind of question to which you got the simple answer. If you wish now to vary the parameters, then the answer may hold true.

If you put your weight anywhere on the stand within the base area it will not tip over. Just very basic physical laws.