hive insulation

[seaninis]

ladies/gents... im in the process of putting the hives up for winter, do i need to insulate the hive if so what is the best material to use?? Thank you Sean

 

[Webby]

You'll get a lot of different answers about this ( as always ) but I have a piece of 100mm celotex under the roof and a 25mm celotex cosy. This is my first year so I'm doing all I can to help them. Still pollen going in this morning, quite a few flying (s east)

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Here's a recent thread that covers this subject:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38152

Because heat rises, you need most insulation in the roof. I use cozies - a sort of deep roof that covers the brood box. The sides are 50mm of PIR (celotex, Recricel, Kingspan, etc.) and the roof is thicker and covered by an aluminium sheet, fettled out of the side of a caravan, to shed the rain. All exposed edges are covered with adhesive aluminium tape to stop insects and bees chewing the PIR.

CVB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

ladies/gents... im in the process of putting the hives up for winter, do i need to insulate the hive if so what is the best material to use?? Thank you Sean

block any holes in crown boards then do the same for the roof 'vents' before sticking in a tighly fitting piece of 50mm celotex/Kingspan/whatever which you can leave in all year - they'll be fine with that.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

ladies/gents... im in the process of putting the hives up for winter, do i need to insulate the hive if so what is the best material to use?? Thank you Sean

Wherever have you been since joining the forum? Winter preparations and control of conditions inside the hive have been thoroughly chewed over so many times it's probably a regular item in the forum search engine stats.
The dinosaurs still advise ventilation by matchsticks under the crownboard but current advice includes sealing the top of the hive, ventilation at the bottom via omf and insulation. Some consider a bit of old carpet on the crownboard to be all that is required, others prefer better stuff such as polystyrene or better. The more enlightened (IMHO) use thick top insulation and insulated sides. In my case in the form of slip on hive cozy made from kingspan, with solid crownboard and open mesh floor beneath the hive.
Derek will be along in a minute to give a physicists explanation of the heat flow and other factors involved.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

As CVB says, more insulation on the top compared to the sides should mean that you don't get condensation (from a cold spot) above the bees. I just use a couple of inches of cellotex or jablite or whatever is kicking around for the top and nothing else. A small colony will have dummy boards pressed to the internal side walls to give a double thickness wall.
And WBC's have the advantage that you can stuff loads of old junky insulation in them. It doesn't have to be pretty. Drop on the roof and no one can see!

 

[bontbee]

...I use cozies - a sort of deep roof that covers the brood box...

A question for everyone who uses cozies - where do you store them????

 

[charlievictorbravo]

A question for everyone who uses cozies - where do you store them????

They're stored on the hive - used all year as a roof. They keep the brood boxes warm in the winter and cool in the summer, just like insulation in a house.

Part of DerekM's talk to local BKAs describes a typical tree nest space as having walls at least 4" thick with an almost infinitely thick roof so our 20mm thick squat effort is pretty puny, thermally.

CVB

 

[user 6228]

They're stored on the hive - used all year as a roof. They keep the brood boxes warm in the winter and cool in the summer, just like insulation in a house.

Part of DerekM's talk to local BKAs describes a typical tree nest space as having walls at least 4" thick with an almost infinitely thick roof so our 20mm thick squat effort is pretty puny, thermally.

CVB

25mm of PIR = 100mm Cedar = 150mm Oak

however shape has a big big influence

 

[Webby]

A question for everyone who uses cozies - where do you store them????

I'm lucky enough to have a couple of outbuildings and stables so will store cosies in one of these.

 

[Itchy]

Should be left on all year

 

[Webby]

Should be left on all year

Leave insulation in the roof all yr maybe but no need to leave the cosy on year round surely?

 

[Millet]

Leave insulation in the roof all yr maybe but no need to leave the cosy on year round surely?

Some people do not use them full stop and still get decent results, i used one on my hive last winter but as soon as the weather warmed up it was removed, for me it would be too much of a faff on having to take the cosy of every time you want to do checks and inspections, my roof is permanently insulated through out spring and summer though, it worked well for me last winter and this year so i will be doing the same next year.

 

[madasafish]

A question for everyone who uses cozies - where do you store them????

In use all year. weigh under 2.5kg so easy to handle.. even a wimp like me ca.

 

[masterBK]

Do you still get condensation of metabolic water within these heavily insulated hives? If not does that mean the bees have to go out in winter to get water to dilute stores to eat or do they stay put and suffer dehydration?

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Do you still get condensation of metabolic water within these heavily insulated hives? If not does that mean the bees have to go out in winter to get water to dilute stores to eat or do they stay put and suffer dehydration?

I don't know the answer to your question. What would bees have done in a hollow in a tree with at least 4" of timber all around it - unlikely to be any condensation there. Maybe they suffered dehydration though Tom Seeley makes no mention of this issue in his Hunting the Wild Bees book (a good read incidentally).

CVB

 

[madasafish]

Do you still get condensation of metabolic water within these heavily insulated hives? If not does that mean the bees have to go out in winter to get water to dilute stores to eat or do they stay put and suffer dehydration?

There is water on the hive entrance. Here in darkest rural Staffordshire, we have frequent rain...Other parts of the UK may be an arid desert for all I care

 

[Webby]

Some people do not use them full stop and still get decent results, i used one on my hive last winter but as soon as the weather warmed up it was removed, for me it would be too much of a faff on having to take the cosy of every time you want to do checks and inspections, my roof is permanently insulated through out spring and summer though, it worked well for me last winter and this year so i will be doing the same next year.

Exactly. I can't see the point of a cosy during the summer.

 

[user 6228]

Do you still get condensation of metabolic water within these heavily insulated hives? If not does that mean the bees have to go out in winter to get water to dilute stores to eat or do they stay put and suffer dehydration?

Condensation will still occur lower down in the hive and in the odd colder spot. Condensation will be occuring at higher RH and at higher temperatures. Note They need less water to dilute stores because they are consuming less. We have a pond with moss in the sunshine so we observe "water flights". We dont see these until well into spring.
We see bees drinking the odd spot of condensation off the clear "crown board"

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Exactly. I can't see the point of a cosy during the summer.

If you have a polyhive where's the real difference? Just a matter of degree.