Hive condensation - ?worth trying calcium chloride desiccant?

[Amari]

A frequent dictum on the forum is 'excess moisture in the hive over winter is a greater risk than low temperature'. Pics of condensation droplets have been posted.
When I owned a small boat I used to put a couple of pounds of calcium chloride crystals in an empty ice cream container on the saloon floor; after a few weeks it was often full of liquid. Caravan owners also use it.
As per google search, CaCl2 is a desiccant and is licensed for use in the food and pharmaceutical industries so does not give off noxious fumes etc.
I wonder if it could be deployed in our hives over winter?

 

[drstitson]

treat the cause not the symptom.

PROPER TOP INSULATION is all that is needed.

 

[Amari]

treat the cause not the symptom.

PROPER TOP INSULATION is all that is needed.

How about ventilation - does top insulation prevent top ventilation or is your only ventilation via OMF?

 

[itma]

Condensation, low on the walls, is an asset not a liability.
An accessible source of moisture for helping with crystallised stores and fondant.
Excess drains out at the OMF. No need for old skool "tip it towards the entrance" (for drainage) mindsets.

Condensation above the cluster would be very bad.
So make sure the coverboard can be warmer than the walls.
Trap the rising warm air (no holes, no matchsticks) and add plenty insulation to the roof to achieve that.

 

[Arfermo]

treat the cause not the symptom.

PROPER TOP INSULATION is all that is needed.

Agree - treat the cause. Inadequate ventilation of the area surrounding where the cluster forms and in the roof itself is the actual answer. I never have or will insulate and have never had moulds etc or colony losses from giving the bees a ventilated home. At best, I put the varroa sheet in the OMF in the very worst of the winter if I think it justified. The medical profession usually recommend some ventilation in ones own bedroom and elsewhere as being desirable. Bees are no different.

See also thread at http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26739&page=5 and http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26739.

 

[Amari]

See also thread at http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26739&page=5 and http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26739.[/QUOTE]

Am I the only one? I find it difficult to understand Finman's message sometimes, tho' I enjoy his style

 

[drstitson]

"How about ventilation - does top insulation prevent top ventilation or is your only ventilation via OMF?"

NO NO NO. NO TOP VENTILATION ON OMFs.

Solid crownboard ALL year.
Proper Top insulation over winter (or indeed all year)

NO MATCHSTICKS.

and OMF OPEN during the winter except maybe in really deep chills (<-15C).

 

[For want of a better word]

treat the cause not the symptom.

PROPER TOP INSULATION is all that is needed.

A couple of matchsticks could be placed under the corners of the crownboard / feederboard to allow a good through draught.......

surprise nobody has mentioned this old trick?










































​

 

[pargyle]

A couple of matchsticks could be placed under the corners of the crownboard / feederboard to allow a good through draught.......

surprise nobody has mentioned this old trick?


​

You cannot be serious ..... That should get a few going ....

 

[user 6228]

A frequent dictum on the forum is 'excess moisture in the hive over winter is a greater risk than low temperature'. Pics of condensation droplets have been posted.
When I owned a small boat I used to put a couple of pounds of calcium chloride crystals in an empty ice cream container on the saloon floor; after a few weeks it was often full of liquid. Caravan owners also use it.
As per google search, CaCl2 is a desiccant and is licensed for use in the food and pharmaceutical industries so does not give off noxious fumes etc.
I wonder if it could be deployed in our hives over winter?

Consider these two things:

1)have you heard of condensing gas boilers? they are advertised as 10% more efficient for the modern insulated home.

2)bees in the winter in conventional hives take lots of risks to fetch water.

Insulate so that the condensation is warm and below or at the side of the bees. Then the bees get 10% energy back and a warm drink with out going outside in the cold.

 

[For want of a better word]

Moisture kills bees... not cold..............

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And cold moisture is even worse

 

[Arfermo]

"How about ventilation - does top insulation prevent top ventilation or is your only ventilation via OMF?" NO NO NO. NO TOP VENTILATION ON OMFs.

Dr Stitson wrong again. Absolute nonsense. The absence of any ventilation in the roof, even the slight amount through the ventialtion holes that are there for that precise purpose, is precisely what induces condensation at the highest point and other potential problems.

"Solid crownboard ALL year. Proper Top insulation over winter (or indeed all year)"

Dr Stitson wrong again - pointles and likely to induce problems with mould etc.

"and OMF OPEN during the winter except maybe in really deep chills (<-15C)."

Isn't that what I said?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

"How about ventilation - does top insulation prevent top ventilation or is your only ventilation via OMF?" NO NO NO. NO TOP VENTILATION ON OMFs.

Dr Stitson wrong again. Absolute nonsense. The absence of any ventilation in the roof, even the slight amount through the ventialtion holes that are there for that precise purpose, is precisely what induces condensation at the highest point and other potential problems.

well I must disagree with your absolute nonsense! - I have no ventilation in my rooves (and that includes those silly little vents inside the roof that only beekeepers in the UK have) and I get no problems with mould or condensation up there

""Solid crownboard ALL year. Proper Top insulation over winter (or indeed all year)"

Dr Stitson wrong again - pointles and likely to induce problems with mould etc.

No - I have solid crown boards and insulation on top, no problems - see previous answer!!

""and OMF OPEN during the winter except maybe in really deep chills (<-15C)."

Isn't that what I said?

The only sensible statement of the lot!

 

[For want of a better word]

And cold moisture is even worse

Warm condensation prevents the fondant from going crusty... if the hive body is cold condensation will occur forming ice that the bees slip on and can not climb up to the fondant... perhaps that is the problem?

Sauna Mann used hive heaters to keep his colonies warm ?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

"I close my eyes and count to ten
And when I open them you're still here
I close my eyes and count again
I can't believe it but you're still here"

Westlake and Clive (as popularized by Dusty Springfield)

 

[drstitson]

"Dr Stitson wrong again. Absolute nonsense. The absence of any ventilation in the roof, even the slight amount through the ventialtion holes that are there for that precise purpose, is precisely what induces condensation at the highest point and other potential problems.

"Solid crownboard ALL year. Proper Top insulation over winter (or indeed all year)"
Dr Stitson wrong again - pointles and likely to induce problems with mould etc.
"

Pardon my French - B*LL*CKS!!!!

Ventilation of the roofspace (between insulation and roof wood/metal) is nothing to do with ventilation of the hive/colony. Completely different issue to ventilated crownboards/matchsticks.
Solid crownboards do not cause mould problems. Cold crownboards and condensation dripping on frames does.

"The medical profession usually recommend some ventilation in ones own bedroom and elsewhere as being desirable. Bees are no different."
SURE - That's just what the OMF provides!!!!! But without draughts or top openings for heat to pour out of. I'm not aware of anyone suggesting sleeping with loft hatch and all windows open - trickle vents is what houses need.


NB It looked like the bee farmer on Horizon a few weeks back how suffered loads of winter losses had NO insulation and NO crownboards.

 

[For want of a better word]

"I close my eyes and count to ten
And when I open them you're still here
I close my eyes and count again
I can't believe it but you're still here"

Westlake and Clive (as popularized by Dusty Springfield)

My cousins Ex-husband's sister, who I also went to school with and was a sort of girlfriend,... used to share a flat with Dusty Springfield!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

just to complete the picture

 

[For want of a better word]

NB It looked like the bee farmer on Horizon a few weeks back how suffered loads of winter losses had NO insulation and NO crownboards.


AND on Solid floors as recommended in last months scribble in BBKA monthly glossy???
Last winter in South Devon was long and damp............... very damp!