Help deciding

[Maltey]

Beekeeping is a lot more complex and in-depth than it first appears!
I'm looking into beekeeping but could do with a little help deciding on hive types please.
A little about me:

I'm only looking to do this as a hobby with 1 hive if possible. I know most places recommend you start out with two but how necessary is that?
I live in the suburbs with a medium-sized garden surrounded by plenty of flowers and fruits (neighbour is an avid gardener, luckily for me!)
I'm 22 so not too worried about things being difficult to lift etc
I think the two I'm looking at really are Nationals and Top Bars.
I've been looking around and there's so much new language to take on board that it makes choosing which to buy really difficult. I'm also on a budget so I'm really looking for the cheapest option.
If I could get an all-in-one starter kit that would probably be ideal but if you can point me in the direction of what I need to go with what that would be super helpful.
Basically any information will be of help! Thanks

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hi Maltey!

Welcome to the Forum and, hopefully, to beekeeping!

Let me start off the responses - the grit, perhaps, round which other Forum members will create a pearl.

First of all, have you had any hands-on experience yet?
Probably worthwhile contacting your local BKA and seeing if you can have a visit to their apiary or tag along with an experienced Beek for a few inspections.

And short intro courses are so comprehensive and informative, that its almost foolish not to go on one.

Next, I would really recommend a National hive, rather than a TBH.
This is because you seem to be taking it gently, and the National is the most common - therefore getting help and equipment is so much easier.
I'm glad you're not thinking of a WBC hive; I've had some foisted on me and although they look pretty, they are a real faff to work with.

The big suppliers all do starter kits, which are good value. But they have a minimalist view of what is needed and you will very soon find you need extra kit.

As part of this, people on the Forum generally advise buying the best full suit you can afford - and starter kit suits are so-so. (They also seem to include leather gloves as standard - which most people here, think are rubbish - being hard to wash and keep supple). A really good suit, such as from Sherriff, are expensive but worth it.

Lastly, whilst keeping one hive is certainly possible, having 2 means you have more resources to deal with an emergency. If you do decide on only one hive, having one compatible with other beeks around, will make getting help, so much easier.

I'll leave it to others to add to this or to contradict it.

There is also a 'stickey' about starting out beekeeping and a thread I once started:
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=14039

Hope you get drawn in to this crazy craft.

Dusty

 

[Maltey]

Thanks for your reply
I've emailed somebody to get some hands-on experience.
I think to be honest I prefer the look of nationals because they look more like traditional hives so I've been looking predominantly at those. With nationals and just a small colony, how many boxes do you need? I've been reading beekeeping for dummies whose illustration shows a brood box, food box and then super. The hive I looked at buying from my local beekeepers only came with a brood box, no food or super. Does that mean they don't necessarily require one or am I better off to add them on? I just don't know how much space a small colony needs. Or, for that matter, how big a small colony is!

 

[itma]

Thanks for your reply
I've emailed somebody to get some hands-on experience.
I think to be honest I prefer the look of nationals because they look more like traditional hives so I've been looking predominantly at those. With nationals and just a small colony, how many boxes do you need? I've been reading beekeeping for dummies whose illustration shows a brood box, food box and then super. The hive I looked at buying from my local beekeepers only came with a brood box, no food or super. Does that mean they don't necessarily require one or am I better off to add them on? I just don't know how much space a small colony needs. Or, for that matter, how big a small colony is!

Don't rush to buy anything at this point.

1/ make contact with local associations
2/ visit them before the end of the season (soon!) and get in amongst bees to check that this is what you want to do (they should be able to supply a visitor suit)
3/ do an Intro course over winter (likely 15/20 hours of tuition), and read bee books by more than one author. After that you should be much more aware of the differences between hive types and the local popularity and prejudices (often against top bars -- particularly starting out with top bars).
And you'll discover that
a/ you need spare kit and
b/ small colonies don't stay small (unless they are sick)

After that you should still then be in time to take advantage of the New Year sales to get some kit at a discount.

Don't consider getting bees until next spring.
They basically get put away for the winter (even if they don't hibernate).

 

[Maltey]

Oh I definitely won't be getting anything yet (unless it comes up at a massive discount!) I just like to research, research, research before I commit to anything!

 

[Little John]

Oh I definitely won't be getting anything yet (unless it comes up at a massive discount!) I just like to research, research, research before I commit to anything!

In that case, then you may wish to spread your research (which is a wise strategy, imho) to cover other beekeping forums and sites.

Each will have their own dominant philosophy towards beekeeping which, despite what others may say on this matter, inevitably tends to influence their choice of hive and the learning methodology employed in it's use.

So - it is fairly predictable that this site will recommend Nationals; b-i-o-b-e-e-s will recommend the Keynan Top Bar Hive; Beemaster will recommend the Langstroth; and Michael Bush will probably recommend the Long Hive. There are no prizes for guessing which hive will be recommended by the various Warre beekeeping groups !

You say you're only interested in beekeeping as a hobby with just 1 hive. That's understandable, but as already mentioned, in practice keeping 2 is far wiser - both to help cope with emergencies but also so that comparisons between them can be made. Sometimes comparing two otherwise identical hives can alert the beekeeper to a problem which might otherwise not be quite so obvious.

You also mention your immediate neighbouring gardens. Well, that's interesting of course - but you really need to think in much bigger terms than those. The flying range of a hive of bees covers a couple of miles in all directions - that's thousands of square acres (!) if you run the numbers ...

You write that the two types of hive you're looking at are Nationals and Top Bars. With this in mind, it's possible that the Warre hive may fit your needs - for in a sense it's a hybrid between the two, in both being a vertical stack of square boxes, but also having Top Bars inside rather than frames (although frames *can* be used - I use them myself in a Warre variant), thus benefitting from both concepts.

What is not so widely appreciated, is that the Warre (and it's variants) can be run very much as a National, with Q/X's, supering, weekly inspections and all the rest; using Warre's recommended "hand's-off" beekeeping approach with just two inspections each year; or indeed anywhere between the extremes of those two styles of beekeeping.

Last thought - there's a lot to be said for the pragmatic approach of keeping the same type of hive as any beekeepers near you - even if that hive wasn't at the top of your list. That way, practical help in times of emergency (such as transferring a combs of eggs etc) is much easier, and you can also benefit from watching others working the same style of hive.

But - whatever hive you finally choose - the very best of luck.

LJ

 

[rayz_x]

We are just second year beekeepers and from that perspective the above is very sound advice.
We found it really useful to go to the public day at the BBKA Spring Conference. Loads of people selling hives and some really good deals. You can also have a good look at everything and ask lots of questions.

Ray

 

[Goran]

If I want to have only few hives. I would take one long hive and go for two queen system: brood and 1st queen-honey-brood and 2nd queen. More honey You'll get than one queen system and if one queen fails, always left the other- can merge brood or make Your own queen. Usually has 22-27 frames. Work with a frame, not with a supers. Frame sizes here used are dadant type or similar ( bigger frame, cause langstroth frame showed not good for it). I don't know does Your omlet hives can be used as two queen system or frame sizes of it.

This type of hives usually said, find nice long box and make frames to fit in it..

 

[Tom Bick]

Perhaps a bit advanced for a complete novice Goran

The KISS approach is the best way when a novice.

 

[Goran]

You are probably right, when You have some beekeeping in hands You forget how it was when You started..
Above all hives good mentor is first. If I had no my mentor I believe I would quit till now or left on a few hives.. Even today I still learn lot from him and have great respect for all the things he learned me and also always ready for some laugh and jokes..

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes a mentor is a good thing to have. Or even just someone with one year’s more experience can help.

 

[pargyle]

There are so many facets to beekeeping that face a new beekeeper that you really need to sit down and think about what you want out of beekeeping to start with, secondly, you need to think about your budget.

Beekeeping, following the 'traditional' route with Nationals and all the paraphenalia that goes with it is going to cost you a lot of money. You only have to total up the basic equipment costs:

Brood box, 2 supers, floor, roof, Open mesh floor, crown board & feeder board, clearer board, Queen excluder. 2 packs of brood frames, 3 packs of super frames, foundation ... then times that all by two (as you WILL need two hives).

Add to that:
Bee suit, smoker, hive tool, feeders, queen cage, varroa treatments, sugar

That's before you get into what you are going to do to extract some honey !

So ... conservatively and buying carefully you could easily be into £1000 of initial investment.

Goran's suggestion is the route that I took and I built a Long Hive based on 14 x 12 sized frames... principally because I was sufficiently competent at making things to cope with the construction and secondly because my budget was very limited. So, if you are capable of some basic DIY then there are options to save a lot of money and end up with a hive that works. I wouldn't discount a TBH as they are low cost option but if you go this route then your design needs to include insulation ... Madasafish will probably offer some advice if you ask him nicely.

But ... I spent over 2 years getting from the stage where I wanted to become a beekeeper to the point where I had a hive and bees. I would agree with those above that say do your research - read everything and buy nothing until you are absolutely certain it's what you want and you need it .. basic beekeeping is relatively straightforward ... it's just the bees that complicate matters.

Good luck.

 

[madasafish]

You could of course be mean like me and make you own TBHs. Initial investment : One hive plus bees plus suit - £250

But you need to be able to saw reasonably straight and use glue, a hammer and a screwdriver...

The good news is you don't need a shed in winter to store all your surplus hive bits..

The bad news is that some people think you are mad, you get less honey than a national - and others KNOW you are mad.

 

[Chris B]

First question to ask yourself is are you cut out to keep bees?
Get yourself along to some kind of hands-on beekeeping session at any BKA that will have you, preferably local. Do that in the next few weeks and then worry about hive types etc.

 

[pargyle]

You could of course be mean like me and make you own TBHs. Initial investment : One hive plus bees plus suit - £250

But you need to be able to saw reasonably straight and use glue, a hammer and a screwdriver...

The good news is you don't need a shed in winter to store all your surplus hive bits..

The bad news is that some people think you are mad, you get less honey than a national - and others KNOW you are mad.

A small but growing population of completely mad alternative beekeepers found on here .... join our ranks at your peril ...

 

[Maltey]

I vaguely understood that Goran- would definitely require fresh eyes but I think you're basically saying to put two hives in one?
I'm going to visit somebody and see their bees at the end of the month to make sure I'm ok with them but I'm 99% sure I will be. I spent many a day as a child watching the bees up close and I'm not allergic to stings. I don't tend to flap and panic either.
I also found somebody who lives very close who will hopefully be able to mentor me. Although I've got relatively good DIY skills I think most of the locals use nationals so they'll probably be the way to go.

 

[Itchy]

Top bar hive £70.00 (and a bit of DIY)
Suit and tools under £100.00
Hands on handling - free if you like
Swarm - ?
What's not to like?

 

[Goran]

I vaguely understood that Goran- would definitely require fresh eyes but I think you're basically saying to put two hives in one?
I'm going to visit somebody and see their bees at the end of the month to make sure I'm ok with them but I'm 99% sure I will be. I spent many a day as a child watching the bees up close and I'm not allergic to stings. I don't tend to flap and panic either.
I also found somebody who lives very close who will hopefully be able to mentor me. Although I've got relatively good DIY skills I think most of the locals use nationals so they'll probably be the way to go.

Yes, one hive two colonies. At one side one colony, on the other side second colony. Between honey compartment divided with queen excluders from colonies. But as said maybe first learn to beekeep than when You understand what, when and why have to do something easily can transfer into any hive You choose, so start with the hive that Your mentor have. This won't be a problem for You cause You would like to have one or few hives.