Hello from the Peak District

[georgesgirl]

Hi. A couple of summers ago a small swarm of bees arrived in our garden but, as I am not a beekeeper, I took too long to work out what to do with it and the bees found a home in an inaccessible part of our roof. Everyone in our family is very eco-minded so we very happy to leave them there.

They are still there and seem to be very busy and successful . I see lots of honeybees in our large rural garden and have not seen any deformed or diseased ones. As far as I know, they haven't swarmed again.

Recently, someone mentioned the problems that honeybees seem to be facing these days and suggested that we could provide a home for another colony of bees. We were happy with the idea. We have no close neighbours. So we have ordered a Warré hive from a small company in England. We like honey but have no intentions of extracting anything from the hive other than pleasure and merely want to copy what the bees in our roof are doing so well already.

Our problem is, come the springtime, where will we find another colony of bees (access to the ones in the roof is impossible without hiring scaffolding) and how would they be introduced to a Warré hive?

Sorry if this sounds too arty farty and brown rice, beards and sandals for you. That's just how were are!

 

[enrico]

Nothing wrong with that. We all keep bees for lots of different reasons.
First of all....welcome. Read the new posts on the forum every day and you will soon start to pick up the jargon and what it is all about. There is nothing wrong with a warre hive but it still needs managing! What is more it produces swarms that are difficult for you to control because of its design, hence the reason we tend to use easier types of hive that can easily be taken apart.
What you need to do in early summer is design a bait box. For that you can use a single warre box. If you can put a few starter frames in with some wax and a few drops of lemon grass oil it might help. What you are trying to do is tempt a swarm from your roof, or elsewhere, to take residence in this box. The other option is that many of us have spare bees that we sell or sometimes give away.
Can I humbly suggest that you join your local beekeepers association and take a simple short course to show you what keeping bees is all about. We are not doing anything wrong by taking honey from our bees. There one failing is that they produce excess honey. Why keep bees and not at least have a taste of it. A warre hive means that you need to destroy the wax to get the honey, other hives just allow you to extract the honey and give the wax back. So we are not all bad!
I would love to show you what our hives are all about but you unfortunately live too far away. Try and get a day with a local beekeeper, I feel certain you will be swayed in the end to a more convenient type of hive, but good luck in whatever you chose. Keep asking the questions if you don't understand!
E

 

[pargyle]

Look up Bait Hive on the internet ... You could start here ...

https://ecommons.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/2653/2/Bait Hives for Honey Bees.pdf

If you put out a bait hive with some swarm lure in it next Spring then the odds are that your existing colony will swarm and there's every chance that they may find your bait hive attractive .. catch a swarm, transfer them to your Warre and bobs yr uncle - another colony of bees.

Just one question .. are you absolutely CERTAIN that the insects in your roof space are honey bees ?

 

[georgesgirl]

Thank you both for your interesting replies. Yes, they are definitely honey bees. My brother keeps them in Australia. I have absolutely nothing against bee keeping at all. I just thought that, having seen them doing their own thing in the roof, that it might be nice to give another lot a home in the beautiful Peak District. No sprays and lots of wild flowers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Warre eh - as someone once said - 'nice bloke, knew B....r all about bees though' as has been said the Warre hive is hard to manipulate and can be a pain to add more space etc - you could still have a moveable frame hive and not interfere too much with it - far easier to handle. Or even a top bar hive (Oooh, hush my mouth and slap my ankles - did I actually say that!- and we're not even in Africa!) Anyway, attached is a PDF on bait hives written by the master

 

[georgesgirl]

Thank you all for your kind interest our foolish enterprises!
I shall definitely read up about bait hives and hope for the best in the spring.
We liked the idea of the Warré hives having been designed originally for people to make from scrap timber and so on. Had planned to have a go ourselves until we looked at our woodworking knowledge and realised that it was even more rudimentary than our bee keeping knowledge. Hence the purchase of a flatpack readymade one.
It's all fun but we really would like to do our bit for the bees.

 

[JEP]

You could also buy "package bees". This term is used to describe a swarm of bees with a laying queen that is sold without frames or combs in a ventilated box. It is the ideal way to stock a Warre hive.

 

[georgesgirl]

Oh, right, thanks for that info. Where would I be able to find a package of bees? Do I just Google? Are they the sort of thing that can be posted or would I have to go and collect them from someone?
(Sorry to be such a dimwit)

 

[YorkshireBees]

Honestly, if your are interested in keeping bees you really should learn about beekeeping. Either joining the local beekeepers association and do their course or do an independent course.

Getting a hive and installing bees in it is not the end! Even the installation of the bees will require some experience.

If you just want a beehive in the garden to be able to observe them and are not really interested in becoming a beekeeper why not find a local beekeeper and offer them a spot in your garden for them to put a beehive?

Even minimalist / "natural" beekeeping will involve some 'beekeeping' at some point.

ps I would never try to discourage anyone from either keeping bees or supporting bees.

 

[georgesgirl]

Hi! When we embarked on this hare-brained scheme we didn't see ourselves as "bee keepers", more as "keepers of bees", if you get my meaning. We thought that if we wandered along to a "bee keepers'" group and said that all we wanted to do was help preserve the planet rather than learn the way of the bee, they would think we were nuts. We saw the bees in our roof and thought that, as they seem to just get on fine without any "farming" we could put another lot in a proper hive and have another colony do the same.

(The more I think about it, the more those poor beekeepers and their association may be right about us being nuts!)

 

[wessexmario]

Hi georgesgirl,
let me play devil's advocate for a while...

Many beekeepers believe in a "light touch" approach, but that doesn't mean doing it blindly or completely hands off.
Let's suppose you do get a hive and install it in your garden,

How would you know if you have now introduced more local competition for the fixed resources in your locality, do you know how to protect either hive from robbing by the other and how to check if they have enough stores to survive the winter?

Can you recognise all the notifiable diseases? There are very few feral bee colonies in the UK, because they find it difficult to survive without some human assistance, both in prevention and treatment of the major ailments that they get. If you had any of the health problems in either of your colonies and let it spread in your locality over a period of time because you couldn't recognise it or report it, or know how to prevent it spreading, you might be contributing to the decimation of bees, rather than help them survive.

Joining this forum is a good start, but do consider that some hands on and a little knowledge will be of much more benefit to the bees, both your own, and nationally..

 

[georgesgirl]

I know what you mean - I wouldn't let my dog or cat just walk about with an open wound but would take it to the vet - but where does that leave my existing colony of inaccessible bees for instance? I can't see their "hive" but from what I see of them in the garden they look happy and healthy. Should I have them taken away?

 

[enrico]

I know this sounds hypocritical and maybe stupid, but one went there of its own accord. That is nature. One you are going to introduce, that is human intervention. If the nature one cat survive it will die, if the one you introduce causes problems in other hives then that is your choice!! You will love keeping bees, it is a wonderful hobby. Learn all about it and before long you will 'understand' what we are trying to say!
E

 

[georgesgirl]

Thank you all for your invaluable help. The hive hasn't been delivered to us yet so We still have time to ponder on what to do next. Don't want to make matters worse for anyone. That was the last thing on our minds.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, but I'd probably leave the roof colony alone. You can't get them out, and destroying them seems rather mean.

Good luck with your beekeeping too. Before you start buying books, and if you have any spare time, you might like to take a stroll through some of the NBU factsheets on Beebase. https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=167

There's a lot of stuff about Warre hives on David Heaf's site http://www.bee-friendly.co.uk/ along with a link to a Warre beekeepers group on Yahoo.

 

[georgesgirl]

Thanks. They do suffer from a lot of problems, don't they? My brother has kept them in Australia for almost 40 years and, although I know that they don't have varroa over there, he has never said anything about diseases to me. he has never had to move them from his garden in all that time and I formed the impression that it was plain sailing. I had no idea that you had to get Defra involved. Not my favourite quango.

 

[enrico]

You don't have to unless you have a diseased colony or you live within a certain radius of one and keep bees that they know about!
E

 

[SteeveeTee]

If you're in the peak district and derbyshire then I guess you may be close to sheffield, who have a very active beekeepers association, offer a course for beginners and would I think be very glad to show the apiaries to you so you get an idea of what is involved.


Personally I think you will need to do at least some husbandry of the bees which will need knowledge of diseases, the life in the hive etc. A beekeeping association would meet regularly too, and possibly you would glean a lot from conversations with a few folk at the meetings, where speakers give talks. A very large number of members of the associations are beginners.


Good luck.

 

[georgesgirl]

Thanks for the encouragement Steeveetee. I'll give my OH a few words of the same

 

[bontbee]

There is also a forum for "natural" beekeepers, where you will find discussion on warre, top bar and all sorts of other no or low intervention hives.

But as others have said, please find out what you are getting into before you, possibly, condemn a colony of bees to death - which, I am afraid, happens quite often when people think that it would be lovely to save the planet by keeping bees. And, please, don't be offended - I am not having a go at you - you seem to be taking the advice you have sought, and has been offered, on board. I have just seen too many colonies go to the wall because of budding, well-intentioned bee owners/keepers.

Best wishes,

http://www.------------/forum/index.php

I have just noticed that the link has been edited. Just search for natural beekeeping forum... (and wait for the hail of abuse that will be directed at me for the very suggestion!!)