Hello from (not so) sunny Toulouse

[FrenchBs]

Hi Everyone,

I have just joined the forum after 2 dismal years of trying to keep bees in SW France doing everything from books....!

At the end of this winter I have just opened things up to find an empty hive (a few dead bees on the bottom of the hive) again. This is the second time this has happened in 2 years and I would really appreciate any advice more experienced beekeepers could provide as I am most obviously doing something wrong.

I have just taken lots of photos and can provide more details of the story if anyone is willing to lend a hand.

 

[enrico]

It happens but......as you are new to beekeeping I would imagine they did not have enough food. We're they all dead on the bottom or with their heads stuck in empty cells, were there stores, was it a big colony going into winter, what hive are you using, how many components were on the hive....we need to know more please!
E

 

[FrenchBs]

Hi Enrico

Thanks for your quick reply. I don't think the problem was lack of food as I gave them 2Kg of candy in autumn and another 2Kg just before winter (most of this was still in the feeder...). Other details are;

- they were a strong colony at the end of summer (italian bees purchased last spring)
- there are sealed stores but not as much as I would have expected for the colony size
- my hive is a Dadant 10 slot, with slotted bottom and top feeder
- when opened there were probably 50 dead bees on the bottom and 20/30 dead bees emerging from cells.
- I can't see what looks like other insects or pests on the hive bottom (to my inexperienced eye - with poor eyesight)

When I inspected the colony just before closing for winter it seemed very strong and active.

Hope this helps. Thanks for the assistance and please let me know if any more information would help.

Paul

 

[Cazza]

Hi Enrico

Thanks for your quick reply. I don't think the problem was lack of food as I gave them 2Kg of candy in autumn and another 2Kg just before winter (most of this was still in the feeder...).

Paul

Are you sure you mean JUST 2 kg??
Cazza

 

[Luminos]

to the forum

Sorry to hear about your bees; I lost my first colony.
Lots of support and advice here though

 

[dclewis]

You don't want to put your candy in a feeder, you want it on top of the frames or over the feed hole in your crown board. ie as close to the cluster as you can get it.
I started with a buckfast q and they just ate me out of house and home the first winter, even after giving them sugar syrup in autumn they still went through 7 x 2.5kg packs of candi from Dec to March; but they survived! I would think your italians were just as demanding of food and got separated from what was available during a few cold days/nights.

 

[FrenchBs]

Are you sure you mean JUST 2 kg??
Cazza

Hi Cazza

I put in two lots of 2Kg candy during autumn and winter (on the advice of the local bee shop) but as I mentioned nearly 2Kg was still in the feeder (and no bees) when I opened the hive.

 

[FrenchBs]

Hi dclewis

I take your point. Maybe it was a case of there being plenty of food but not readily available. As per my first post, I am learning as I go along and gained most of my direction from the bee shop with the associated potential for a language glitch. The feeder I used (and the candy) was on their advice.
The loss this year is quite strange as the winter in SW France this year has been quite mild.

 

[MJBee]

Hi FrenchB, Welcome to the forum.

You have not mentioned any treatment to combat varroa. Did you give any treatment last Autumn or mid Winter?

I agree with the other posters that unless they had a lot of honey in the brood box 5kg of fondant is not enough. I have 2 x 10 frame Dadants and after the supers came off last August they were given sugar syrup continuously until the hive (floor, brood box, cb,roof) weighed more than 40Kg.

However now you have found us there is a wealth of information here, browse and learn and above all if in doubt ASK.

 

[enrico]

My bets would be on starvation. Mild winters can mean more activity, more activity means more food needed, you need to feed thick sugar liquid or ambrosia in autumn until the brood box and the bees will take no more! Candy is basically for emergencies, unless you put a 12.5 kg block on top of the frames!
I also agree that varoa may have played some part.
Try and find another beekeeper to shadow for a year....do what they do and learn from their experience. We are here to help but try and ask before you need to know, not after....try again, hopefully you will be getting the feel for them. Good luck and stay on the forum. Read every post and learn as much as possible
Cheers
E

 

[FrenchBs]

Thanks MJBee

From all the replies it certainly looks like I need to review my feeding strategy - not just the amount, but given that there was a large amount of untouched candy when I opened the hive, where the food is placed as far as access is concerned.

Can I take it that most people use syrup rather than candy? Would this be due to temperature differences between UK and SW France?

I did not carry out any varroa treatment Autumn or Winter as I did not see any evidence of mites. Was this a mistake?

Many thanks to all for the support.

 

[enrico]

Depends how you tested for mites, did you put a sticky varoa tray under a mesh floor or just look for them? We use thick sugar water in the uk. We can have long spells of cold weather and the bees stay on the frames rather than go searching feeders for food. They won't break the winter cluster to climb into a feeder. Even candy we put on the frames so that the whole cluster can be next to it. Even with food bees can starve if they can't get to it obviously and easily!

 

[Luminos]

Thanks MJBee

From all the replies it certainly looks like I need to review my feeding strategy - not just the amount, but given that there was a large amount of untouched candy when I opened the hive, where the food is placed as far as access is concerned.

Can I take it that most people use syrup rather than candy? Would this be due to temperature differences between UK and SW France?

I did not carry out any varroa treatment Autumn or Winter as I did not see any evidence of mites. Was this a mistake?

Many thanks to all for the support.

I fed as much syrup as they would take, after varroa treatment with Apiguard.
I would not rely on not seeing any mites, as evidence of them not being there.

 

[FrenchBs]

I just looked for them but I'm afraid with my rather poor vision this was probably not the best plan.

 

[whoosling]

sorry about your bees

 

[enrico]

I just looked for them but I'm afraid with my rather poor vision this was probably not the best plan.

You're right there. I strongly advise you to do loads of reading or as I say get hands on experience with a mentor....once upon a time you could do it by just trying......I did, but now with diseases and mites weakening bees it is important you know more than the basics for them to survive. I wish you all the luck in the world but please try and find some real help. Pity you are not local to me!
Best of luck
E

 

[FrenchBs]

Great help - lots of useful information greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, around the area we live there are not many experienced bee-keepers and it seems a case of the blind leading the blind. However, there is a good supplier an hours drive away - with my limited French should have some interesting conversations.

Thanks again, Paul

 

[dclewis]

Ready prepared syrup is half the price of ready made candi, (it is for me at least from my local syndicate and when bought from them its a heck of a lot cheaper than from the bee shops). If you give syrup to the bees at the end of summer/autumn they can pack it away and process it so its the right water content and close to the brood nest, where as the candi is plonked on top if there is insuficient stores in the brood box and will always be that bit more remote from the place where its needed.

 

[MJBee]

Paul, You have a PM