Hello and advice please!

[AndyjHawk]

I have a swarm that has taken root in a pillar in my garden and I need advice!

6 years ago a swarm settled inside a hollow brick pillar in my garden, I took off the capping stone and replaced it with a National Hive on which it fit perfectly (see photo). The swarm unfortunately didn't survive but I kept the hive there if for no other reason than it was a useful flat surface. My attempt to keep bees got swallowed into other things. In early summer however another swarm moved in, they are still active. I have not opened the hive.


They cannot stay where they are and must be moved before Easter to elsewhere in the garden.
When would be the best time to move them?
How do I move them if the hive has grown below the hive and into the pillar?
How do I find out if this has happened?
Are there any unknown unknowns I need to be told?!

I can easily move them elsewhere for a month before returning to their final home.
Many Thanks,
Andy

 

[Erichalfbee]

You can move a colony a short distance in the winter when the bees are not flying.
There’s no picture though

 

[AndyjHawk]

00ps 1st post mistakes already!

 

[Swarm]

This year was a very good year, I think it's safe to assume free comb in that configuration and best left alone until next spring. Also, best attempted by someone with some experience. It may be easy, it may not.

 

[user 819]

I see a pic in #1.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I see a pic in #1.

Yes so do I now.

 

[Anduril]

Do you have a floor for that hive? Looking at the picture I can see bubble wrap under the brood chamber. If you could lift up the hive on one side, so that it is angled, to see where the cluster is, it would give us a better idea of what to do next. Also where in the UK are you?
On a cold or wet day, if the cluster is only in the brood chamber area and you have comb drawn down to the entrance, which looks like the opening in the cement. Then using a cheese wire, you could slice through the comb and move the brood chamber onto a closed up floor. Once that is done, clean up the pillar. After that is done strap up the hive to move to your permanent site and open the entrance. This can be done in the winter, for spring the hive would have to be moved 3 feet at a time. The wax drawn down from the frames can be tidied up when the weather is warmer, late spring.

 

[JamezF]

Yes, it would be useful to know for certain whether the colony is in the pillar or in the hive and if they're free to move between the two. It might also be useful to know a touch more precisely whereabouts you are as there's always a chance that someone might be near enough to help you out.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are there frames in the hive?

 

[pargyle]

Do you have a floor for that hive? Looking at the picture I can see bubble wrap under the brood chamber. If you could lift up the hive on one side, so that it is angled, to see where the cluster is, it would give us a better idea of what to do next. Also where in the UK are you?
On a cold or wet day, if the cluster is only in the brood chamber area and you have comb drawn down to the entrance, which looks like the opening in the cement. Then using a cheese wire, you could slice through the comb and move the brood chamber onto a closed up floor. Once that is done, clean up the pillar. After that is done strap up the hive to move to your permanent site and open the entrance. This can be done in the winter, for spring the hive would have to be moved 3 feet at a time. The wax drawn down from the frames can be tidied up when the weather is warmer, late spring.

That's possible for a beekeper with a bit of knowledge ... not sure it's a job for someone not really anything more than a beginner at best.

Jenks has it:

Are there any frames in there ?

And as you say ... do they have access to the interior or the pillar.

Unless it is absolutely necessary to remove them I'd be inclined to strap it down as best he can and leave them be until spring. They will have more chance of surviving if they are left alone until then .. tearing the apart after they will have set themselves up for winter is not going to do them any favours.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And as you say ... do they have access to the interior or the pillar.

according to post #1 yes

 

[AndyjHawk]

Many thanks for your thoughts... To answer:-
I'm in north Nottinghamshire.
Yes there are frames in the hive.
There is no floor on the hive.... The original swarm used the hole in the brickwork - as surmised - however the current swarm use a gap in the bubble wrap between the hive and the pillar and I assume they have blocked off the gap in the brickwork.
Although the hive has been active since I spotted it in June it has never seemed overwhelmingly big.

 

[AndyjHawk]

Yes they have free movement. The pillar is 40cmx40cmx60cm internal dimension with the hive and frames sitting atop.

 

[Anduril]

That's possible for a beekeper with a bit of knowledge ... not sure it's a job for someone not really anything more than a beginner at best.

Jenks has it:

Are there any frames in there ?

And as you say ... do they have access to the interior or the pillar.

Unless it is absolutely necessary to remove them I'd be inclined to strap it down as best he can and leave them be until spring. They will have more chance of surviving if they are left alone until then .. tearing the apart after they will have set themselves up for winter is not going to do them any favours.

Considering this is a forum, where we offer advice, the hive has to be moved before Easter and Sunday 9th April is Easter Sunday, this means spring starts at around 20th March, that is a small window of opportunity. Depending on the weather, we could still, have a cold spell or exceptionally warm weather. I've seen hives bubbling over with bees in March, to the point of swarming. If the OP feels confident or can get help from a beekeeper close by, then all well and good, we are here to help.

 

[BeeAdmin]

Welcome to the forum, Andy. Enjoy.

 

[Antipodes]

Many thanks for your thoughts... To answer:-
I'm in north Nottinghamshire.
Yes there are frames in the hive.
There is no floor on the hive.... The original swarm used the hole in the brickwork - as surmised - however the current swarm use a gap in the bubble wrap between the hive and the pillar and I assume they have blocked off the gap in the brickwork.
Although the hive has been active since I spotted it in June it has never seemed overwhelmingly big.

Do you have a floor for the hive box?
Do you have a bee suit or anything like that for safety?
Assuming you have at least these two things, I'd suggest the first step, (as Anduril says) is to lift/prise the box up a little from the pillar on one end (perhaps lift on the end that extends over the edge of the pillar)- and peer under to see if there is comb extending down. You might need to temporarily wedge a chock under it so you can position yourself to look. Easier with someone to help lift and place things, but assuming that the comb does not extend down below the frames, if you lift the entire box with lid from the pillar and place it on the ground, you can then put a floor on the top of the pillar with the entrance facing the same way as the current entrance and also put a strap under it that can be used to secure everything for later moving. If you have assistance from a beekeeper, which would be great of course, just hang onto the box whilst they place the floor into position. ( It may need two people to lift the box and lid up actually...you'll feel the weight of the thing once you prise the box up). Place/lift the box and lid back up onto the floor and strap the lot together. Report back.

If you prise it up and see comb and bees below the frames, report back.

 

[AndyjHawk]

1 peek is worth a thousand guesses.
Have bee suit, crowbar, smoker.
will make wedges and see.
Any advice on time of day weather conditions that would be most conducive.
Am not in a rush.

 

[Anduril]

The operation should be easier seeing that the bubble wrap is between the pillar and brood chamber. Just try and slide the brood chamber across first, so that you have the flat surface of the top of the pillar to act as a supporting base to tilt one side of the chamber. To be even clearer use the top locking bar that the frames rest on, to tilt the hive. Move it forward of the concrete entrance and use the hand hold (top locking bar) to tilt.
Try it on a dry day, morning or afternoon. Do you have a hive tool to release the hive from the pillar?

 

[pargyle]

Do you have a floor for the hive box?
Do you have a bee suit or anything like that for safety?
Assuming you have at least these two things, I'd suggest the first step, (as Anduril says) is to lift/prise the box up a little from the pillar on one end (perhaps lift on the end that extends over the edge of the pillar)- and peer under to see if there is comb extending down. You might need to temporarily wedge a chock under it so you can position yourself to look. Easier with someone to help lift and place things, but assuming that the comb does not extend down below the frames, if you lift the entire box with lid from the pillar and place it on the ground, you can then put a floor on the top of the pillar with the entrance facing the same way as the current entrance and also put a strap under it that can be used to secure everything for later moving. If you have assistance from a beekeeper, which would be great of course, just hang onto the box whilst they place the floor into position. ( It may need two people to lift the box and lid up actually...you'll feel the weight of the thing once you prise the box up). Place/lift the box and lid back up onto the floor and strap the lot together. Report back.

If you prise it up and see comb and bees below the frames, report back.

The operation should be easier seeing that the bubble wrap is between the pillar and brood chamber. Just try and slide the brood chamber across first, so that you have the flat surface of the top of the pillar to act as a supporting base to tilt one side of the chamber. To be even clearer use the top locking bar that the frames rest on, to tilt the hive. Move it forward of the concrete entrance and use the hand hold (top locking bar) to tilt.
Try it on a dry day, morning or afternoon. Do you have a hive tool to release the hive from the pillar?

I really can't see any mileage in investigating what is going on at present - what are you going to do whatever you find ?

It's all good advice about what to do when you come to move them but if it can be left to Spring - then leave it until spring !

At that stage you have lots of options ... a fresh box, floor etc. that you can transfer the existing frames into. Cut out any brood in combs extending into the pillar (they will be joined to the bottom of the frames and the sides of the pillar cavity). You can pick a warm day when the bees are flying so you will have less to deal with and you can effectively do what we would normally term a cut-out.

In spring the bees will be building the colony, you can give them a feed to help them along and treat them for varroa.

It makes no sense to start fiddling with them now - it's only for curiosity and we all know what curiosity did !

 

[Anduril]

I really can't see any mileage in investigating what is going on at present - what are you going to do whatever you find ?

You can pick a warm day when the bees are flying so you will have less to deal with and you can effectively do what we would normally term a cut-out.

The tilting is to determine how far down the extended comb goes, if there is any, whether the comb has brood and where the cluster is. Then as Antipodes suggested, a floor could be added and the hive left in situ. Or it could be placed alongside the pillar and then moved 3 feet at a time to get to its final destination. Not knowing what the spring weather is going to be like and the very small window that is left to complete the operation before Easter. Tilting can also determine the weight of the hive now and whether it would need fondant. So with a floor underneath hefting can be carried out over the winter.

Modifying your words a cut out is possible for a beekeeper with a bit of knowledge ... not sure it's a job for someone not really anything more than a beginner at best.