Heather dissapoints

[BugsInABox]

The Daily Wail, source of dangle a sprat to catch a mackerel source of whispers
I have not managed to produce viable cut comb yet as I fed my 2 hives on the Heather, sugar syrup to encourage them to draw out the thin premier unwired wax foundation...so that bombed.

I’m thinking ahead to next season and yes I will be asking supplier if thin premier unwired wax is made from cappings or recycled wax from frames.

I have just found out that BS Supplies in Devon has premier unwired wax in stock, guaranteed free from pesticide residues, sterilised etc ( it comes from bee farmers in Ethiopia)

But have been looking at the Ross rounds system as suggested by forumite Erichalfbee who posted great links on this thread about comb production

Yes, it was that video got me thinking. As a newb (me) how viable is pressing your own comb?

 

[Speybee]

Yes, it was that video got me thinking. As a newb (me) how viable is pressing your own comb?

I think pressing your own comb will be time consuming and if you believe as I do that” time is money”, that would have to be factored in.
I have seen some ideas of using a strip of wax across a frame which may be less time consuming for the beekeeper as the bees are doing all the work building the wax comb themselves.
There is a lot to absorb but no doubt it’s do-able, once confidence levels increase with time.

 

[BugsInABox]

I have just found out that BS Supplies in Devon has premier unwired wax in stock, guaranteed free from pesticide residues, sterilised etc ( it comes from bee farmers in Ethiopia)

It’s terrifying isn’t it, that to get the unadulterated comb, they gave to go to Ethiopia.

 

[Speybee]

It’s terrifying isn’t it, that to get the unadulterated comb, they gave to go to Ethiopia.

Perhaps now, it’s the turn of the humble honeybee to become a commodity of globalisation?

 

[GuyNir]

I have seen some ideas of using a strip of wax across a frame which may be less time consuming for the beekeeper as the bees are doing all the work building the wax comb themselves.

I have no personal experience of this, but was told if you give them just a strip (for them to start and build the comb themselves), they might not build the comb all the way to the bottom (leaving a gap).
maybe others who run foundationless can advise?

 

[Speybee]

I have no personal experience of this, but was told if you give them just a strip (for them to start and build the comb themselves), they might not build the comb all the way to the bottom (leaving a gap).
maybe others who run foundationless can advise?

I’ve also had it suggested at a bee meet a while back, that you can use a triangle of wax, but again as GuyNir suggests, perhaps the experienced beeks can share their tips please!

 

[Madge]

... maybe others who run foundationless can advise?

Search this forum. Foundationless frames have been discussed a myriad of times.

 

[fiat500bee]

I’ve also had it suggested at a bee meet a while back, that you can use a triangle of wax, but again as GuyNir suggests, perhaps the experienced beeks can share their tips please!

@pargyle is your man. I'm definitely not experienced, but my bees are. So I've already tried more or less the method which I am sure he will generously describe. I can't now easily see whch frames were built on foundation and which were just 15mm, thin, unwired starter-strips. They look a bit random as they build them and apparently don't always fill every square mm to every edge, but they are still a wonderful work of art nature.

 

[Speybee]

@pargyle is your man. I'm definitely not experienced, but my bees are. So I've already tried more or less the method which I am sure he will generously describe. I can't now easily see whch frames were built on foundation and which were just 15mm, thin, unwired starter-strips. They look a bit random as they build them and apparently don't always fill every square mm to every edge, but they are still a wonderful work of art nature.

Thanks for sharing your experience of doing this Fiatbee.....next season may try this.
I also have 2 honey boxes full of uncapped frames that I am experimenting with by wrapping them in plastic bags before putting them in the freezer.
I picked up on an idea by a forumite to freeze the partially capped frames until Spring when I will defrost them and place them on top of a QE for the 2 hives to start completing the process of ripening and capping the frames.
Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, but Im going to try anyway and see what the bees do with it next season.

 

[pargyle]

@pargyle is your man. I'm definitely not experienced, but my bees are. So I've already tried more or less the method which I am sure he will generously describe. I can't now easily see whch frames were built on foundation and which were just 15mm, thin, unwired starter-strips. They look a bit random as they build them and apparently don't always fill every square mm to every edge, but they are still a wonderful work of art nature.

I'm not alone - there are lots of beekeepers who are, at least, in part running with foundationless frames ... I've been foundationless from Day 1 of my beekeeping....I see very few disadvantages and a whole lot of positives. The naysayers will tell you that it costs you 8lbs of honey to make 1lb of wax ... I don't know whether this is true or not ...but, as we are only talking about the weight of foundation you are saving and once they have built the combs it is there for a long time, I don't particularly worry about that statistic. So .. over the years I may have not maximised my honey crop ... big deal, I've done a lot worse to decimate my honey crop ! Bees seem to like building comb from scratch - they appear to build free comb at least as fast as they build out foundation - if not faster at times.

I don't replace my brood combs or super combs very often ... they really need to be at the point where the bees won't use them before I work them out and to be honest - I've got brood frames that are over 8 years old that the bees are still happy to clean and use ... it makes foundationless very economical.

My original premise to go foundationless was very much motivated by stories of the reclaimed wax being used to make foundation containing high levels of contaminants - everything from paraffin wax to excessive residues of chemical varroa treatments - the fact that we still have to go to Ethiopia to get virgin organic wax for foundation tells its own story. I'm sure that foundation suppliers go to great lengths to make sure the foundation they sell is fit for purpose and yet, every year, we hear from someone who has some foundation that bees will not draw out ... I don't face that risk. In the immortal words of Dirty Harry 'Do you feel lucky ?'

There are some excellent threads on foundationless frames which can tell you an awful lot more than a few posts on a thread that is supposed to be about the heather crop. I'm not ducking out of an answer but if you want to know anything specific that you can't find in this thread started by Tom Bick - who helped me a lot when I started beekeering - then add your questions to that thread and I'll be happy to add my (albeit in my experience and rather biased opinion) comments.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/foundationless-beekeeping.27494/#post-385654

 

[AI Queens]

I think pressing your own comb will be time consuming and if you believe as I do that” time is money”, that would have to be factored in.
I have seen some ideas of using a strip of wax across a frame which may be less time consuming for the beekeeper as the bees are doing all the work building the wax comb themselves.
There is a lot to absorb but no doubt it’s do-able, once confidence levels increase with time.

Regarding you comment about pressing your own wax! I do make my own from wax capping's. Yes It can be time consuming but for me this is a winter job and the only bottle neck is waiting for the wax to cool down. So if its P@ssing with rain and windy, to me sitting in my shed making my own wax from my wax that the bees have produced that year is not time consuming.
So my take on this is, if you dont want to use wax that you think has chemicals in it, DONT USE IT or complain about other's using it. Use a small starter strip that you have made from your own wax and let the bees get on with it.

 

[ericbeaumont]

If it is contaminated, please share the facts or links

Straightforward google!

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ence_of_pesticide_residues_in_Spanish_beeswax
https://www.apidologie.org/articles...Apidologie_0044-8435_1999_30_2-3_ART0012.html
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/tag/pesticides/Go to para called A Historical Artefact

https://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/abs/2008/03/m07061/m07061.htmlWith regard to Amitraz: Other ingredients with similar chemical behaviour presently play an unimportant role as residues in honey, beeswax and propolis owing to the very low amount of ingredients used (acrinathrine, flumethrine) or instability (amitraz).

https://projects.sare.org/sare_project/fs12-261/Comparison of contamination of foundation and cappings

Finally, https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jafc.6b02813# concluded that the food consumption of honey and beeswax contaminated with these residues considered separately does not compromise the consumer’s health, provided proposed action limits are met. In regard to residues of flumethrin in honey and in beeswax, “zero tolerance” should be applied.

Acaricide residues in honey and wax after treatment of honey bee colonies with Apivar or Asuntol 50 | Apidologie
With regard to Amitraz: Following Apivar

treatment, amitraz was not detected in honey nor in wax.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009754
Public perception of the purity of beeswax for human consumption matters, which is why it's better to use NHS Ethiopian foundation or make your own foundation with cappings. I sell blocks of wax to customers intending to make beeswax wraps or cosmetics and tell them why I use cappings wax only.

 

[Speybee]

Regarding you comment about pressing your own wax! I do make my own from wax capping's. Yes It can be time consuming but for me this is a winter job and the only bottle neck is waiting for the wax to cool down. So if its P@ssing with rain and windy, to me sitting in my shed making my own wax from my wax that the bees have produced that year is not time consuming.
So my take on this is, if you dont want to use wax that you think has chemicals in it, DONT USE IT or complain about other's using it. Use a small starter strip that you have made from your own wax and let the bees get on with it.

Lovely pale wax btw, wish we had “smelly vision” on the forum as the smell must be intoxicating

 

[North End Bees]

I do make my own from wax capping's. Yes It can be time consuming but for me this is a winter job and the only bottle neck is waiting for the wax to cool down. So if its P@ssing with rain and windy, to me sitting in my shed making my own wax from my wax that the bees have produced that year is not time consuming.

Our BKA run a 'wax day' every October (not this year unfortunately ) where members can have a go at pressing their own foundation, amongst other things, e.g candle dipping, polish making etc.
The club equipment can be borrowed by members at any time. I think I might borrow the presses later on this year and see what I can make up for next year.
Sounds like it could be quite a peaceful afternoon (and I've got plenty enough wax built up from not doing wax conversions as the trade fairs were cancelled!)

 

[Aestivum]

It’s terrifying isn’t it, that to get the unadulterated comb, they gave to go to Ethiopia.

Daft move - pesticide regulation in Ethiopia is very lax compared to ours - many products on this list are banned in Europe. list-of-registered-pesticides - Ministry of Agriculture .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Daft move - pesticide regulation in Ethiopia is very lax compared to ours - many products on this list are banned in Europe. list-of-registered-pesticides - Ministry of Agriculture .

Daft statement.
Just because they can use it, doesn't mean they do.
look around. African countries are one of the few places that can still claim organic status for their honey, in general, subsistence farmers cannot afford the luxury of spraying their crops with anything bar water. they do not (because there isn't a need) treat their bees so nothing goes into the hives to get locked into the wax. I've been out in the Selous Nyasa landscape and handled wax blocks rendered down using the most basic methods and equipment and it's a joy to see - even the worst of it would put the sorry chunks of rubbish stacked up in the wax exchange boxes at the conventions to shame.